Thread: Whipped Dog "Quarter Nortons"

Originally Posted by billyc4362

Obviously you have to make x strokes instead of going straight up and down the hone,

Please show me an instructional Video or a Thread where anyone with experience says this,,, Please, I am NOT being Rude or Condescending here, I just want to know where this info came from...

I have noticed this in several posts not only about Hones but also about Strops and I am wondering if there is something/somebody saying this, or if it is a case of many newbs just parroting bad info..

If you don't want to link it here, please take the time to send me a PM I am honestly very interested on where it comes from...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Please show me an instructional Video or a Thread where anyone with experience says this,,, Please, I am NOT being Rude or Condescending here, I just want to know where this info came from...

I have noticed this in several posts not only about Hones but also about Strops and I am wondering if there is something/somebody saying this, or if it is a case of many newbs just parroting bad info..

If you don't want to link it here, please take the time to send me a PM I am honestly very interested on where it comes from...

well, when you have a smaller hone to work with simple logic dictates that X-strokes make sense since that way you hone the entire blade with each stroke instead of just part of it. this change of technique is not based on authority, I'm not an authority but if you get a small hone I'm willing to state this is the way to go.

if you realy want an authorety stating the benefits of the x stroke, see: http://www.coticule.be/strokes.html

We don't need an authority. We have experience.

Regardless of the size of the hone or the strop, an x-stroke is more effective than a straight stroke.

Originally Posted by Utopian

We don't need an authority. We have experience.

Regardless of the size of the hone or the strop, an x-stroke is more effective than a straight stroke.

There is your answer Bram you just read the question wrong or I wasn't absolutely clear, I thought I made it clear with the Bold but maybe not

Bingo !! or some type of Angled, Swooping, Sliding stroke that covers the entire bevel of the razor, that info is everywhere and common knowledge in Razordom,, what I want to know is where is the "Straight Stroke" on a 3" Hone or a 3" Strop is coming from ??? I keep reading it and I am wondering why ???

Originally Posted by gssixgun

There is your answer Bram you just read the question wrong or I wasn't absolutely clear, I thought I made it clear with the Bold but maybe not

Bingo !! or some type of Angled, Swooping, Sliding stroke that covers the entire bevel of the razor, that info is everywhere and common knowledge in Razordom,, what I want to know is where is the "Straight Stroke" on a 3" Hone or a 3" Strop is coming from ??? I keep reading it and I am wondering why ???

I think(from my absolute rookie experience) it comes from the thought that the x-stroke is used when a razors length exceeds that of the hones width.

So reeducate the newb masses to understand that the x-stroke is more effective on any size hone for the most part.

I can't quote or link directly but I've even seen an animated gif on this site that illustrates an x-stroke on an under sized hone. But I will admit that it doesn't state that its FOR an undersized hone.

I think its not parroting of bad info. Mainly misunderstood info.

Originally Posted by ncraigtrn

I think(from my absolute rookie experience) it comes from the thought that the x-stroke is used when a razors length exceeds that of the hones width.

So reeducate the newb masses to understand that the x-stroke is more effective on any size hone for the most part.

I can't quote or link directly but I've even seen an animated gif on this site that illustrates an x-stroke on an under sized hone. But I will admit that it doesn't state that its FOR an undersized hone.

I think its not parroting of bad info. Mainly misunderstood info.

Here is how I see it:

Whenever you lead a razor down a hone, you are basically using about a quarter or at most a third of the stones width.
The part near the tang is where the action is at.
What that means is that while the entire blade lies on the full-width hone, the pressure will be the highest at the edge where the tang is.

Given the above, one would think a more narrow hone would be able to do the very same thing.
And you would be right.
The thing is, balancing the razor and working parts of the bevel at a time takes a wee bit of practice to learn.
All seasoned honers uses their skills of balancing the blades to their benefit, and would have little to none trouble using a hone like the one Larry is selling.
(although most would not want to)
Just as addressing issues at the tip of a blade would be well within reach with a slight adjustment of lift of the scale side of a razor on a wide hone.

But the ability to do so has taken many of us quite some time to learn.

Therefore, recommending that stone to a new honer is down right wrong in my opinion.
The lack of stability, regardless of what part of the edge is worked, might result in less than stellar results more often than not, so we tend to not recommend that approach.
IMHO that is

Originally Posted by Birnando

Here is how I see it:

Whenever you lead a razor down a hone, you are basically using about a quarter or at most a third of the stones width.
The part near the tang is where the action is at.
What that means is that while the entire blade lies on the full-width hone, the pressure will be the highest at the edge where the tang is.

Given the above, one would think a more narrow hone would be able to do the very same thing.
And you would be right.
The thing is, balancing the razor and working parts of the bevel at a time takes a wee bit of practice to learn.
All seasoned honers uses their skills of balancing the blades to their benefit, and would have little to none trouble using a hone like the one Larry is selling.
(although most would not want to)
Just as addressing issues at the tip of a blade would be well within reach with a slight adjustment of lift of the scale side of a razor on a wide hone.

But the ability to do so has taken many of us quite some time to learn.

Therefore, recommending that stone to a new honer is down right wrong in my opinion.
The lack of stability, regardless of what part of the edge is worked, might result in less than stellar results more often than not, so we tend to not recommend that approach.
IMHO that is

Agreed. [emoji106]

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Bingo !! or some type of Angled, Swooping, Sliding stroke that covers the entire bevel of the razor, that info is everywhere and common knowledge in Razordom,, what I want to know is where is the "Straight Stroke" on a 3" Hone or a 3" Strop is coming from ??? I keep reading it and I am wondering why ???

+1. I don't do anything but X strokes, rolling X, unless it is circles or 'back and forth' while bevel setting. I don't know anyone who would do 'straight strokes' since the hone may have a certain amount of irregularity even shortly after a fresh lapping.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

+1. I don't do anything but X strokes, rolling X, unless it is circles or 'back and forth' while bevel setting. I don't know anyone who would do 'straight strokes' since the hone may have a certain amount of irregularity even shortly after a fresh lapping.

If the hone doesn't, there's a decent chance that the razor will.

As far as the sizes go, when people honed razors for a living (talking about barbers) regularly, and the market was professionals for the choice stones, and not us deep pocketed amateurs, they knew what size they needed. (speaking of the 5x2, 5x2.5, etc). Going smaller than what they used when people generally didn't buy more than they needed is suboptimal.

Could I or anyone else hone a razor with a quarter of a bench stone? Sure. Would I want to purchase an inexpensive razor off of ebay that needed significant work and use it with these small stones? Definitely not.

I'd rather have something inexpensive, like the sometimes sets of old king stones that pop up on ebay (like an 800 and a 6000 or 8000) for cheap and if inexpensive doesn't go fine enough, there are tons of stones that do.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

There is your answer Bram you just read the question wrong or I wasn't absolutely clear, I thought I made it clear with the Bold but maybe not

Bingo !! or some type of Angled, Swooping, Sliding stroke that covers the entire bevel of the razor, that info is everywhere and common knowledge in Razordom,, what I want to know is where is the "Straight Stroke" on a 3" Hone or a 3" Strop is coming from ??? I keep reading it and I am wondering why ???

owww, yes, I guess I misunderstood indeed, I guess I should have gone to sleep instead of checking here last night,...

I don't know about these straight strokes or where they come from, I think it is what I would initially do with a stone (big enough) and razor put infront of me without reading anything about all this stuf... (initially I thought the x-stroke was only to compensate for a small hone, I know better now).

Edit: just coincidentally came acros the following statement about the Naniwa Super Stones on the invisible edge (UK) saying: "All the stones are full size bench stones measuring 210 x 70 x 10 mm ( approx. 8.25” x 2.75” x 0.4”) and are bonded to a plastic base fitted with anti-slip ‘button’ feet. This size makes honing that bit easier as the full length of the blade can be set on the stone, doing away with the need to ‘x-pattern’ the honing action.", that might just be the source of the confusion here