Thread: Hard Arkansas

As best as I can tell the nomenclature applied to stones in the True Hard class (>2.5 SG) varies from one vendor to the next, colors are not really stone grades. Probably best to call and ask about the particular grade your are interested in. The difference in proportions is reflected in SG and this gives a relative measure of how fine the stone will cut/polish. Higher SG should give a finer polish to the edge.

Touched up an old Sheffield on a Dans black last night. About 200 circles and 100 x strokes. Turned out real nice.

Good thing I like honing lol.

Originally Posted by ezpz

Are Dan's hard blaco stones what others classify as surgical black?

yes. If you call dans, they will tell you that the black is their finest stone, too, but I haven't found that to be the case. both their black and translucent white stones are very fine stones and they do a good job of surface preparation, so their black may feel finer than another company's black of the same SG (in the long run it likely won't, but who would complain about them doing a good job to prepare the stone - you can use theirs on a razor right out of the box).

Is there anything special about a ttranslucents black?

No, they are a gray translucent. Treat them as a translucent and not as a black stone when assessing how they feel in use. There is a very slight difference in how the two release particles (black vs. translucent) and a black stone will sometimes release a clump of particles as one particle - that's pretty annoying. When honing razors, that should rarely or never happen though. Translucent stones don't do that. Anyone who has ever honed tools a significant amount on a black stone will probably remember when it seems like a foreign particle randomly got on the stone in the middle of honing (tools = more pressure = more likely to break something loose)

And does the different proportions of cryptocrystalline to micro crystalline quartz have a significant effect beyond the SG of the stone?

Anything 2.6 SG or above, and maybe even slightly below that (as in anything without visible pores) can be made to cut very finely if the surface is conditioned very well and the user manages to keep the razor off of the edge of the stone (if you get a razor tilted up and on the edge of the stone, the particles will cut deeper across the razor - undesirable). in my opinion, once you get to that 2.6 level, which is about where translucents become translucents and where other stones stop showing any pores, you don't really need to worry about any other details.

Originally Posted by Blistersteel

here is my washita at the top and my translucent Arkansas at the bottom.both work well together.

Do you use any other stones between these two?

Originally Posted by john3126

Do you use any other stones between these two?

Yea, a Norton 1,4,8 K and a 12K super stone...

Just kidding, you can go from a Washita to Surgical Black or Translucent but it may take some time to polish out the Washita stria.

I often use a Trans or Black stone after a 12k Super Stone. Works great.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Yea, a Norton 1,4,8 K and a 12K super stone...

Just kidding, you can go from a Washita to Surgical Black or Translucent but it may take some time to polish out the Washita stria.

I often use a Trans or Black stone after a 12k Super Stone. Works great.

What is your assessment of what it does after a 12k superstone? I had one of those years ago for tools, but sold it before I started shaving. (I do have a gok 20, a sp 13k, and at one point had about 6 other finish stones - ...thinking about it I still have 5 synthetic finish stones that are not related to razors specifically).

What made the superstone not so good for tools would've made it better for razors.

Anyway, I never thought to follow a synthetic with a black ark, but I've also not used synthetics for much in a while.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Yea, a Norton 1,4,8 K and a 12K super stone...

Just kidding, you can go from a Washita to Surgical Black or Translucent but it may take some time to polish out the Washita stria.

I often use a Trans or Black stone after a 12k Super Stone. Works great.

I just got a nice Soft (2.23 SG). I set a bevel with it last night on one of my practice razors and thought I would use a Hard (2.4 SG) before going to the Black. I am thinking now I might skip the middle stone.

ive gone washita to black,however it does take longer to remove scratches etc.

An Ark finisher, after a 12k Super Stone is a great edge, especially if you like the keen, krisp Ark edge. It also works well post 8K.

Years ago, I learn to hone on Arks, before good synthetic water stone were as good as they are now. The practice then, was bevel-set on a Washita, and finish on Black or Tranlucent and strop.

Typically I do a Chosera 1K, Norton 4/8K, finish on a 12K Super Stone. Strop on Chrome Oxide and CBN. Or finish on Escher, Ark, Vosegine or film and strop.

I do still like an Ark edge, it is a different edge. I have no idea of the SG of my Arks and don’t care. They are all old and do work though.

Washita to Trans or black. I am not saying it can't be done but geez that would seem to take for ever. I mean you could go from a nani ss 1k to a gokyuma 20k and it would work eventually but god why. I usually go from my coticule or phig to my trans or black. much quicker but still takes some time but it is worth it.

On another note: I will say I would never have guessed this thread would last to 30 pages. Hats off to arkansas stone awareness.