Thread: Which Colicule could be used as a bevel setter?

Originally Posted by dta116

What I am getting from this thread is "don't use naturals/Coticules for bevel setting". Use synthetics.

Is that about right?

It was just a thought........

That is the best way to go IME. After trying many of the 'usual suspects' I found the rumors that the Chosera 1k was hard to beat as a bevel setter were true. I have had quite a few coticules and only one was half decent as a bevel setter. It wasn't real good as a finisher. So, as the old saying goes, 'you pays your money and you takes your chances.'

With naturals as bevel setters it is more of a gamble that you'll find the characteristics you're looking for, unless you buy one from a trusted source who tells you the straight scoop on it. With a synthetic such as the Chosera there is no hit or miss, you've seen one, you've seen 'em all. I can appreciate the desire to do it all with naturals. I've 'been there and done that', but nowadays I prefer expediency to nostalgia.

I regularly use a coticule of one of the faster layers for bevel setting (Les Latneuses, La Petite Blanche, La Veinette come to mind).
It works perfectly.

However, when there is a lot of work to do I switch to a DMT. I haven't tried a stone faster than a diamond hone.

Ive set bevels many times on any coticule I've had/have. Wet the slurry stone not the hone. Raise slurry keep going no water till you get a creamy paste. Tape spine add a drop of water and a bit more pressure. Do not dilute but do not let dry out. Takes a little longer but have never had a problem bevel setting a dull edge on a coticule. from there on I remove the tape.

best would be to get a coticule that self slurrys alot. a friend of mine has one. works great and is pretty fast on bevel setting.

Originally Posted by decraew

However, when there is a lot of work to do I switch to a DMT. I haven't tried a stone faster than a diamond hone.

There are synthetics not far off diamond speed but less destructive on edges which, can make the process faster.

Originally Posted by MrMagnus

best would be to get a coticule that self slurrys alot. a friend of mine has one. works great and is pretty fast on bevel setting.

Sometimes yes, but not always a guarantee of a fast cutter. A hard coti can also be a fast cutter. Certainly a stone with a rep for speed is a good place to start but then the hunt for the ideal stone is only beginning. Ironically not many,if any, naturals will be as expedient as a synthetic for bevels.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Ironically not many,if any, naturals will be as expedient as a synthetic for bevels.

This is true IME if you limit yourself to looking at naturals with a grit equivalence of around 1k to 2k synthetic or so. There are stones that will work, but they are not common, and tend to be very soft and expensive, as in more than the Chosera.

However, if it cuts fast enough, there's no reason not to look at finer stones. The suita I used in the above post is likely around 4-5k synthetic and is typical, not a wonderful example. Suitas are fairly common although good ones are valued by woodworkers both in Japan and here, and can be expensive for a large, good example. But the little stone I used cuts as fast as a Chosera 1k but is considerably finer. On that particular one, I'd probably stick a pre-finisher in the lineup after it, but many would not need that.

Just to be clear, I am speaking of bevel setting on a sound blade, not chip removal or "course correction".

Cheers, Steve

When I think of setting a bevel on a Coticule it reminds me of that picture of a skeleton sitting in front of a computer with cobwebs and someone passing by and saying "computer been down long?"

I'm a believer in the right tool for the right job.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I honestly don't

I tried to make an all natural set up a couple of times, there is no doubt there are several ways to "Make Do" but the 1k-ish Synthetics are just so good at what they do that it makes it a niche / eclectic way of bevel setting not to use them..

Sorry

Originally Posted by rodb

Same here, I've never found a natural stone under 3k stone that is better than the equivalent synthetic.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

When I think of setting a bevel on a Coticule it reminds me of that picture of a skeleton sitting in front of a computer with cobwebs and someone passing by and saying "computer been down long?"

I'm a believer in the right tool for the right job.

These quotes answer your question perfectly. I too have wanted a natural progression, but IME there is no better bevel setter than a synthetic like a Chosera 1K. Some are faster like the shapton gs series, but you had better use tape if you have some bevel work to do.

I have spent thousands of dollars on stones over the years and have found what works for me. I like to get to the finish line as quick as I can as easy as I can, then match the finisher to the particular razor's need. Setting a bevel on a polishing stone of course can be done done...but why? Use a bevel setter, then a pre polisher, a polisher, and a finisher for a razor.

Originally Posted by Steve56

This is true IME if you limit yourself to looking at naturals with a grit equivalence of around 1k to 2k synthetic or so. There are stones that will work, but they are not common, and tend to be very soft and expensive, as in more than the Chosera.

However, if it cuts fast enough, there's no reason not to look at finer stones. The suita I used in the above post is likely around 4-5k synthetic and is typical, not a wonderful example. Suitas are fairly common although good ones are valued by woodworkers both in Japan and here, and can be expensive for a large, good example. But the little stone I used cuts as fast as a Chosera 1k but is considerably finer. On that particular one, I'd probably stick a pre-finisher in the lineup after it, but many would not need that.

Just to be clear, I am speaking of bevel setting on a sound blade, not chip removal or "course correction".

Cheers, Steve

Yep the 'right" Suita could do the job but at 2-3x the cost & time of a good 1k.
Personally I've used my Tsushima brick also but could do the job in half the time on my Shapton.

Again true in general. The stone I used was bought from Takeshi-San as a nagura even though it is 210mm long. I paid $35 for it. I did pick out an ugly iron line, and I take it is actually an edge trimming from a larger piece.

I'm kind of looking for a larger, faster suita, but I can say from the few I have, they're about as fast as a Chosera or Shapton, and I currently use a Shapton Pro 2k most of the time as a bevel setter. The suita is faster than my 600 Chosera, and its an ordinary suita.

It would be interesting to get So-San's take on it.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Yep the 'right" Suita could do the job but at 2-3x the cost & time of a good 1k.
Personally I've used my Tsushima brick also but could do the job in half the time on my Shapton.