Thread: Escher or Coticule differences

I really appreciate all the help. Maybe I just got lucky with those two or it was my imagination from unfamiliarity. I have really tried to listen to Glen and Lynn's posts about the importance of a bevel set. Maybe the time on the norton 1K was well spent. Still trying to learn to hone properly and the help I've gotten here has been really valuable. Thanks again for sharing the wisdom.

Using the BBW side of a Coti doesnt make too much sense as mentioned by Druid the garnet content is much lower then on a Yellow Coticule side....

When a Coticule is used after a 1k Stone its usable very variable in the range up to 8k and higher....i also do prefer the finish on a coticule or a thuringian Stone which both gives me very comfortable and smooth shaves..

For me most of the Natural Stones do have a certain character or soul which all other kinds of synths do not have in any way....The synths work very well, surgical clean, always re-produceable results, so they do not offer any fun in honing for me personally.

They are shurely a good tool for people who needs to hone a hundred dotzend of razors due to their business and probably these are a good start for beginners searching for constant results.

Originally Posted by doorsch

Using the BBW side of a Coti doesnt make too much sense as mentioned by Druid the garnet content is much lower then on a Yellow Coticule side....

When a Coticule is used after a 1k Stone its usable very variable in the range up to 8k and higher....i also do prefer the finish on a coticule or a thuringian Stone which both gives me very comfortable and smooth shaves..

For me most of the Natural Stones do have a certain character or soul which all other kinds of synths do not have in any way....The synths work very well, surgical clean, always re-produceable results, so they do not offer any fun in honing for me personally.

They are shurely a good tool for people who needs to hone a hundred dotzend of razors due to their business and probably these are a good start for beginners searching for constant results.

Yes! +1

A little late to it here, but I've tried several coticules and several eschers. The eschers are all almost the same, even with color variations and they don't wow me but they do what they're supposed to do (finish a razor) reliably, and even in hands that don't have much experience.

I've had, I guess, four good coticules, and they are all much different than the eschers. They are coarser stones with the same amount of pressure or technique and more of an experimenter's stone.

Personally, I see them both as overpriced for what they do. Japanese naturals on the medium hard side are not much different than a thuri, but the concession is that they are all a bit different unless you get a stone that came from the same mine and same strata and close to another stone. I can find hard koppa that do a very good job (at about $75), and stones that cost $500 that are not that much different, the chance being that you might get a piece of stone (koppa) that is not that great and have to buy another at $75. I haven't seen an inexpensive coticule of any size nor a thuri of size, and as long as the escher market stays high, it doesn't matter too much what you pay because you can get most of it back.

Coticules have been a much bigger pain in the butt for me to sell because of their inconsistency. If I have a good one, I'd like to recover the cost of it when I want to unload it, but the fact that some aren't that great drags down the used market price for a good one.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Simple fact: "The more you hone, the more your skills are honed, and the hone magically becomes better"

Best statement I have seen in a LONG while Glen & pure fact IMO!

I hate coticules, but it's because I can't match my edges I get off my other stones...yet. I know it's me as I have shaved off good coticule edges, they are just my Achilles heal

Originally Posted by doorsch

Using the BBW side of a Coti doesnt make too much sense as mentioned by Druid the garnet content is much lower then on a Yellow Coticule side....

Could be a good way to save the coticule side of the stone, and also do not underestimate the finishing power of a BBW, Interesting study to look at
http://www.coticule.be/heritage.html.../BBW-study.pdf

The best way to get good with any coticule you have laying around, including one that doesn't seem like it will work that fine, is take a bevel set razor and ban yourself from using anything else other than the coticule for several months. I guarantee if you can hone with any other stone, you'll find out what the coticule likes and get an edge you can live with. Same goes for any stone that has a marginal reputation.

There's something that always occurs to me with that, though, and that's that even once you master a coticule you have, if you go back to your old favorite after that you'll probably think "I still get a better edge easier with ___" (for me that's a thuringian or a good japanese stone).

Marginal oilstones and coarse-ish coticules, I have always been able to get a good edge on the nth shave, even if I can't get a great one right off of the razor. Which goes back to the way some old literature describes an edge, where you coddle the bevel a little bit to keep it in shape, but never work the linen-prepared edge off of a razor. Those are the kind of things you stumble on if you force yourself to use a stone that otherwise feels like it provides an uncomfortable edge.

Originally Posted by Martin103

Could be a good way to save the coticule side of the stone, and also do not underestimate the finishing power of a BBW, Interesting study to look at
http://www.coticule.be/heritage.html.../BBW-study.pdf

Thanks Martin, i already know the document. I probably didnt explain my statement correct or detailed enough, as i was referring in the thinking of working after a 1K stone with serious steel removal...

More here:
http://www.coticule.be/faq-reader/it...garnets41.html

I cited Barts statement in comparison of GBB/BBW:

"That makes BBW's slower than Coticules and if we are aiming for serious steel removal during the first stages of honing, the average Coticule will perform a great deal faster than any BBW. Hence, if the choice to do serious bevel correction is between Coticule and BBW, pick the Coticule."

Every older person I've talked to (which I guess is all of about 3) always says "don't use ___ side", and they're referring to the blue side. That includes carvers, who never use the blue side, either.

I haven't followed that discussion in detail on here or any of the other coticule boards (you can't even talk on one of them without getting permission from the members, can you? I can't even see the board posts, they're secret or something), but I'm guessing that the desire to have and use the BBW side is a new thing. I don't use it, but still would rather have a natural combo than a glued combo stone, anyway (I'll admit, they look nicer).

I never noticed the blue side to cut faster than the yellow, anyway, or even as fast. It's just a novelty to use something different sometimes.

I think maybe some of the difference in BBW results might be attributed to the BBW's..

The ones being marketed separately for the last 10 years or so do a better job at "Honing" then the ones I have tried the were attached to the back of an older Coticule layer as a support stone..

That could just be my imagination at work too, or shear luck, I haven't done serious testing nor would I, to me it is a niche stone that is fun to mess with... I will play around when I have a really outstanding older stubtail type blade, coming off the bevel set going to a BBW and then a final finish on the Coticule, it seems to give a softer cutting approach to that old steel and a longer lasting comfortable edge.. Again just my impression, no proof