Thread: Is This Over Honing

Originally Posted by Slurryer

As a percentage of the bevel, these would be maybe about 5% in size. Very small. Just noticeable at 20K. Your thoughts?

On another thread there was a discussion about what size chips could be noticed while shaving. Only a few people were involved, but the general consensus was that if a chip could not be seen at 10x you would not feel it during the shave. However I think it's obvious that as the number of these unseen chips increases the blade would at some point be perceived as being dull or possibly harsh.

Originally Posted by Razorfeld

I was just thinking that with all the modern technology now available to us that our forefathers didn't have I sometimes feel we have created a world of overworry exemplified by concern over what might be micro chips on an razor's edge. Magnify anything and even the straightest of lines and smoothest of surfaces start looking like the craters of the moon. I feel we worry too much about what didn't seem to concern our parent's and their parent's. I don't recall reading anything about old time shavers getting very concerned about an edge's condition other than saying, simply, if it isn't shaving, hone or refresh it. ...

I would not say overly worried. More like passionately curious. Years of experience have blessed you with calibrated thumbnails. You can do a few quick test and know from experience what kind of shave will result. People like me that resort to external tools like loupes and things, want the same results that your experienced thumbnails produce, but don't have the same years of experience that you do. So we look for a way to be objective and measure our results. That's all those external tools do. Thy replace your subjective thumbs with a more objective view of what the razor looks like. Which is better is up in the air. I think being objective can be more efficient as well a build experience. It's definitely a way for a newbie to quickly get the same results as someone who has years of experiences.

Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I don't think you actually stated how much you honed the razor before using the pasted strop, and on what hones. If it was me and I was concerned, an 'easy' fix is to simply take it back to setting the bevel stage (i.e. pyramids on a Norton 4/8 or similar) followed by something like a Shapton 16k. At lest that would solve the problem if it was overhoned and too fragile and edge.

This was more of a refreshing, not a honing. So the razor was just not shaving as well. What I was doing was 40 passes on CrO2 and 80 on FeO2. The razor shaved well, but with some irritation. That's when I looked to see that the edge looked like and saw the micro chips. From there I did 5 passes on CrO2 and then 5 on FeO2. That appeared to remove them, but left the razor with a bit more pull than before. Still a close shave.

Contaminated pasted strop maybe ? No matter I would drop back and get the chips out and then proceed to polish watching for chips to reappear.

They may have also come from opening and closing your razor. I always pass on some info that was given to me by Glen. Get in the habit of closing all blades with care. I had just done a refresh on a Satinedge I had been using for a year and was surprised by some chipping like you were. The only thing I can think of was contact by closing.

Originally Posted by 10Pups

Contaminated pasted strop maybe ? No matter I would drop back and get the chips out and then proceed to polish watching for chips to reappear.

They may have also come from opening and closing your razor. I always pass on some info that was given to me by Glen. Get in the habit of closing all blades with care. I had just done a refresh on a Satinedge I had been using for a year and was surprised by some chipping like you were. The only thing I can think of was contact by closing.

Thanks for that. This particular razor has a fairly loose hinge pin, so the blade can come in contact with the scales I believe. I'll definitely keep that in mind!

Originally Posted by Slurryer

This was more of a refreshing, not a honing. So the razor was just not shaving as well. What I was doing was 40 passes on CrO2 and 80 on FeO2. The razor shaved well, but with some irritation. That's when I looked to see that the edge looked like and saw the micro chips. From there I did 5 passes on CrO2 and then 5 on FeO2. That appeared to remove them, but left the razor with a bit more pull than before. Still a close shave.

So you never looked at the blade prior to the first stropping? If not, you have no baseline to form any judgement as to the cause.

Originally Posted by Slurryer

People like me that resort to external tools like loupes and things, want the same results that your experienced thumbnails produce, but don't have the same years of experience that you do.

I am supposedly in the experienced category but still rely on a stereomicroscope for honing. I can detect much more nuanced issues with it than I ever would be able to with my thumb.

The more you look, the more you see.

Too much pressure while honing or stropping, contaminated strop as said or paste is not pure. Most probably pressure on the strop rolling the edge.

You would probably have to go to .50 Diamond to remove small chips or joint the edge on a high grit finisher.

Try a foam core pasted paddle strop with lite pressure.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Just make sure he or she is straight shaver.

As opposed to??
~Richard

I didn't think my thumbnail could draw such a series of responses. Truth be told, and let me thank you for granting me years of experience, I've only been using a straight since July 2013 and honing/refreshing my edges since September 2014. I have a poor scientific background and an over abundance in the creative areas. I came to my dry thumbnail test because I forgot about reading it was supposed to be a wet thumbnail. I just used empirical observation based on the way it felt, then shaved and adjusted till I could say, to myself, that feels like it will shave the way it should. Believe me, I went back to the stones many, many times on a couple of razors till my memory was educated enough to know what I was feeling on my vaunted thumbnail.