Thread: La Roccia natural 12K-15K

Originally Posted by bigeasy1

Sorry, forgot to ask, why do you strop part way through?

After 50 I stropped and did a HHT to see if I could perceive any difference from finishing with the 8K to finishing with the La Roccia. At 50 passes There was little difference that I could tell from the HHT, but after 100 total, I noticed a definite difference from a ringing TING to slight TICK from the HHT. So the stropping was just to test the blade midway.

The morning shave was noticeably better than my normal shave off the 8K, but no huge difference.There is a spot along my neck where the razor use to skip a bit with most shaves. That same section on my neck shaved very smoothly this morning, and that was the most noticeable difference. For my first go around with this hone, I'm pleased. For less than $40.00 shipped, I got a better edge with not much experience on this hone. I can only assume that with more experience things will improve.

I tired producing a slurry from the corner, but got nervous about scratching up the hone, so abandoned that approach. Glad to hear my instincts were not far off. Are you using the long corner to start the slurry, or the tip of the slurry stone? How much pressure are you applying initially with the slurry stone on the edge?

As for the HHT, although it isn't a judge of 'shave readiness', for me, it's a quick test of how the edge is progressing. It primarily answers the question "Is it getting sharper". As a noob, that's important to me while my technique is improving. The report of the razor passing through a single hair also provides some feedback as to where the edge is. I believe that performing a HHT, using hair from the same place and type can supply some usable information. I'm still a newbie, so my opinions are subject to change.

Originally Posted by Slurryer

As for the HHT, although it isn't a judge of 'shave readiness', for me, it's a quick test of how the edge is progressing. It primarily answers the question "Is it getting sharper". As a noob, that's important to me while my technique is improving. The report of the razor passing through a single hair also provides some feedback as to where the edge is. I believe that performing a HHT, using hair from the same place and type can supply some usable information. I'm still a newbie, so my opinions are subject to change.

I agree, I find the HHT useful. One thing to keep in mind though is that a thoothy edge will pass the HHT better than a smooth one. For me a good HHT does not mean I will get a good shave, but I've never had a good close shave where the HHT was poor.

Originally Posted by bluesman7

I agree, I find the HHT useful. One thing to keep in mind though is that a thoothy edge will pass the HHT better than a smooth one. For me a good HHT does not mean I will get a good shave, but I've never had a good close shave where the HHT was poor.

I agree. I've never had a good shave from a razor after a poor HHT. I have however had a poor shave from a razor after what appeared to be a good HHT.

This was the first time for me that a HHT produced a quieter report from the razor. From the comments above, I am assuming that a toothy edge may produce a slight tug on a single hair, and a louder report at different spots along the length of the razor. Not sure about that, but I'll try and test it out.

I've seen toothy edges give silent HHT 5s and very irritating shaves.

So… you are saying you can tell the difference in keenness of an edge by the sound it makes?

Ok…

Even if that is possible, keenness is just half of honing a razor, it may work for knives, buy you don’t shave with knives.

Anyone can do sharp, you can hone and strop on Diamonds and get an edge that will “pop” hair all day long. But you would be shaving with a serrated edge.

What does the “edge” look like and more importantly, how does it shave.

Maybe you have some special skill, but when other people who do not know better read this kind of post, they believe they should be able to do the same and it is not relative to shaving.

And then they are off, chasing an edge that will “pop” hair.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

So… you are saying you can tell the difference in keenness of an edge by the sound it makes?

Ok…

Even if that is possible, keenness is just half of honing a razor, it may work for knives, buy you don’t shave with knives.

Anyone can do sharp, you can hone and strop on Diamonds and get an edge that will “pop” hair all day long. But you would be shaving with a serrated edge.

What does the “edge” look like and more importantly, how does it shave.

Maybe you have some special skill, but when other people who do not know better read this kind of post, they believe they should be able to do the same and it is not relative to shaving.

And then they are off, chasing an edge that will “pop” hair.

No special claims or abilities on my part. Only observations that I'm trying to connect with experiences. I mentioned HHT here because of an observation that was different after honing on this stone. Being new to a lot of this, I don't really know whither those observations matter at all. The comments I'm getting back, positive and negative are helping me to validate whither I should tie that observation with this last shave experience. You're fairly convinced that I should throw any HHT observation out with the toilet water. Ask me about HHT in a year, I may join you in that opinion. But for now I'm seeing some repeatable patterns that have some value. Not valuable enough to say a razor is shave ready, but enough to say that the edge is not getting more dull, or the edge is getting more sharp. For a newbie, that's valuable. For someone with more experience, MMV. Viva La Razor!

EDIT
Just thinking how funny that would be.
Slurry AKA
The Blade Whisperer

Learn to hone on synthetic stones, once you have mastered honing, then experiment with Natural finish stones.
Adding a Natural stone, especially a slurring slate, is adding way too many variables to learning to hone.

Add to that an unreliable and completely unquantifiable “Test” and you are really extending your learning curve.
Minimize you variables and use proven, consistent and repeatable methods or you will be chasing your tail.

Learn to set a bevel and perfect a fool proof, 100 percent reliable test of when a bevel is set, like a visual test, by looking straight down on the bevel with magnification, looking for when the bevels are not meeting, then simply remove the previous stria with each progression, without damaging the edge.

You don’t even know what the grit of this stone is and if it is capable of improving the edge.

8K is all you need, once you have mastered that then look for something higher, most probably your Natural is not even 8K.

I have been honing for over 40 years and I could not tell the difference in the sound of an 8 or 12K edge cutting a hair. I defy anyone to, in a blind test… more importantly… it does not matter.

It means nothing, even if you could.

Well I see a lot of personal preferences being touted here.that said naturals are how I learned to hone with and therefore I prefer them.I've shaved off of my Imperia hones and get repeatable results with my two hands.ymmv .

by the way,the hht , thumbpad test etc are all tools in an arsenal of any honer .before USB Scopes there were Guys taking the time to test each stone to (his ) satisfaction .cheers -CAM-