Thread: Salm Rock/Old Rock Coti's vs Other vintage Coticules

Originally Posted by scag315

I'm dying to try a Salm Rock or Old Rock coti but haven't gotten my hands on one yet. How would they compare to what I'm currently using?

Bit like asking what is the difference between a red Ferrari & a yellow Ferrari.
the answer is "it depends".

There are stones that have reputations due to a certain consistency in performance but even nature makes lemons.

If you say 3/100 cotis are good for razors, it just means you were too lazy to take the time to really get in tune with any given rock.. I'm sorry, but that ratio is utterly asinine... I own a pike, a choice belgian, and an old rock. The pike is the easiest to use and produces a great edge, the choice is the trickiest to get the most from and makes a pretty brisk edge for a coti, and the old rock is utterly phenomenal... YMMV obviously.

old rock



pike



choice belgian

Originally Posted by kcb5150

If you say 3/100 cotis are good for razors, it just means you were too lazy to take the time to really get in tune with any given rock.. I'm sorry, but that ratio is utterly asinine... I own a pike, a choice belgian, and an old rock. The pike is the easiest to use and produces a great edge, the choice is the trickiest to get the most from and makes a pretty brisk edge for a coti, and the old rock is utterly phenomenal... YMMV obviously.

Sorry, but the honer to which he is referring is very far from lazy and I guarantee that he took the time to get in tune with each and every hone, because that is what he does. It's simply a matter of his standards for what constitutes a good hone are much higher than those of most.

It's a completely asinine statement... I'm sorry, but it is.... I respect someone having extreme standards, but it's exceedingly uncommon to come across one that won't provide an excellent shave that is comfortable.... If he would say "3/100 charnleys are suitable razor finishers" or "3/100 of the carbos you find in the wild you could put a razor to" or "3/100 vintage barber hones you tend to come across aren't rubbish" I'd say fair enough, but I have had A LOT of these things at this point and from my experience they all can be shaved off of with some effort... BBW is a different story... maybe 15-20% of those aren't a waste of time..

It's more a case you have to come across cotis you can get along with without struggle, but they can pretty much all be beaten into submission.. Coticules aren't like Lilac Vegetal where it only smells nice on 5% of the ppl who lay it on thick and like condensed death on the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Sorry, but the honer to which he is referring is very far from lazy and I guarantee that he took the time to get in tune with each and every hone, because that is what he does. It's simply a matter of his standards for what constitutes a good hone are much higher than those of most.

I agree with that assessment, for whatever that is worth .......

Originally Posted by kcb5150

It's a completely asinine statement... I'm sorry, but it is.... I respect someone having extreme standards, but it's exceedingly uncommon to come across one that won't provide an excellent shave that is comfortable.... If he would say "3/100 charnleys are suitable razor finishers" or "3/100 of the carbos you find in the wild you could put a razor to" or "3/100 vintage barber hones you tend to come across aren't rubbish" I'd say fair enough, but I have had A LOT of these things at this point and from my experience they all can be shaved off of with some effort... BBW is a different story... maybe 15-20% of those aren't a waste of time..

I also agree with the above assessment ......... FWIW ........ when he said it, I thought it was an 'asinine statement' ..... but we all make them from time to time ......

I mean, the only outright BAD ones have quartz inclusions that are toxic... There are some I wouldn't shave directly off of personally, but they can have real good speed and be nice in a progression to a different coti or something else entirely. The overly chalky, soft ones tend to be blah, but how often does ardennes let those out the door...

IMHO, it really depends on each individuals definition. There are no absolutes of "Best".

I also know the person referred to. He honed one of my Filarmonica #14's with his Japanese hones. It shaved very well...but my edges, using chrome Ox paddle strop, suited me better.

Just my 2¢

There's nothing wrong with charged stropping if a paste edge isn't harsh to you. My two personal criteria for a good edge are: cuts well with no chatter or bogging down, even atg, and not harsh. I've had mellow coti edges meet it, and crazy sharp edges off of La Lunes and Eschers meet the criteria. They all felt radically different, but all are good and enjoyable to use.

I've owned only about a dozen coticules. 2 stamped "Choice" coticules (including the one above), a LPB that I still use, A boxed Pike (also I still use), and lots of different unlabeled ones. I've found that I get really great edges off some but found others to be better suited for mid grade work.

As far as the gentleman they're referring to (I've watched the video where he makes that statement) goes I also thought it was ridiculous as was his statement that you can't use Coticules for one hone stones. However his standards might be far higher than mine when it comes to shaving edges. I have several eschers, and other thuringians but still enjoy shaving with a coticule edge that might not be as refined but is far more comfortable for my face.


Also, fantastic looking stones!!