Thread: Pressure!

If you need to use more than the usual amount of pressure or you need to resort to narrow hones your bevel is not properly set. Reset you bevel on a low grit hone and make sure every time before you move up the grit ladder both sides of your bevel touch the hone along its entire length.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I bought a set of four narrow single grit hones because I thought it was obvious that geometry, as described in this thread, dictated that I had to have narrow hones.

I have not used them in years. I don't need them anymore. The razors I hone did not get better. I just learned how to hone such warped blades without ever needing a narrow hone.

I do believe this might also be why I am so adamant about Mythbusting this one also, as I also fell for the hype way back when... I was restoring many older smiling warped twisted Sheffield's and it seemed logical to me that a set of thinner hones would make it much easier..
Another restorer had a new set of Norton combos for free so he agreed he would supply the hones and I would supply the work and we split the set "Literally",,, we both got a set of Norton 220/1k - 4k/8k that were 1.5 inches wide

We both learned rather quickly that the advantage is not from the thinner hone but the Gymnastics used to keep the edge moving evenly and equally down the hone...
The exact same moves can be employed on nearly any width hone...

Mine also are in pristine condition and sit gathering dust like many other "Flavor of the Day" Hones as a reminder to me not to buy into the myths

There's no myth involved, for crying out loud. A razor with a concave bevel will in my opinion be honed faster and easier on a narrow stone. On a "problem" razor that would require a LOT of steel removal with a wider stone (or honing with mainly the corner of the stone) the narrow or side of stone approach is the only way to go for me. I have done it many times both ways too! (Many people in this thread are making a lot of assumptions about my inability to hone a crooked razor with a wider hone or acting/responding like I've said it is impossible. Never said that!) If you disagree that's fine. Calling it a myth is a little insulting to be honest. Should I call your view a myth because I don't agree with it?

And again, (getting tired of repeating myself, really) no one is advocating buying anything... If anyone wants to try it, all they need do is just use the side of a stone! Some will find the "mythical" (see, somewhat insulting, right?) way on the wide hone more to their liking, and some will find the narrow (or side of the stone) hone more to their liking.

And also, no one is advocating using pressure to correct a geometry error! Go back and read the first page!

Originally Posted by eKretz

(Many people in this thread are making a lot of assumptions about my inability to hone a crooked razor with a wider hone or acting/responding like I've said it is impossible. Never said that!)

You never said that? I quote you "As you can see, there is no physically possible magic or gymnastical stroke that will let you use only the marked off narrow bit of the wide stone." From the post with your drawing.

Nobody is insulting you, you stated your opinion, life goes on.

You are taking it personal

What we are trying to make VERY clear is that it is not the tools, it is the hands, not one of us said thin hones will not work, but Newbs tend to latch onto any crutch they can to figure out why things are not working for them..

If you tell them a Thin hone is better they will believe it they will latch onto and then continue the myth thinking it was the hone,, and not realizing it was actually their new found honing skills (Practice)
A thin hone might very well work better for "YOU" nobody is disputing that. but when you say it is better BECAUSE of some geometric principle that you tried to illustrate then yes I say that is incorrect, if you say it is because you learned on thin hones I can't argue that point.. Do you see the difference ???

ps: Honestly I don't care if you are tired of repeating yourself you can stop any time you chose

pps: Think about this just one second I own a full set of cutdowns I hone a lot of razors, many of those razors are Older Restored Sheffield's the exact razor that are prone to these issues.. Don't you think if it were actually easier and faster and better I wouldn't be using it ??? Seriously ???? I will take any advantage that I possibly can..
This is simply not an advantage ...

Originally Posted by Martin103

You never said that? I quote you "As you can see, there is no physically possible magic or gymnastical stroke that will let you use only the marked off narrow bit of the wide stone." From the post with your drawing.

Nobody is insulting you, you stated your opinion, life goes on.

No, I never said it was impossible to hone a crooked or concave razor on a wide stone. What I did say and mean by that was that it was impossible to hone such a razor using a narrow marked off area of a wider stone without doing most of the work on the corner of the stone. I stand by that statement.

Originally Posted by eKretz

No, I never said it was impossible to hone a crooked or concave razor on a wide stone. What I did say and mean by that was that it was impossible to hone such a razor using a narrow marked off area of a wider stone without doing most of the work on the corner of the stone. I stand by that statement.

That is simply not a true statement .

Do it all the time,, and teach that exact technique at the Meets

NOT being insulting here,,,, but do you know what a Heel Forward stroke is ??? sometimes also called a 45 Degree Heel Forward stoke ???

IDEA !!!! Try changing your thinking to the center 1 inch of the 3 inch stone that might make it more clear that there is no difference

Originally Posted by gssixgun

You are taking it personal

What we are trying to make VERY clear is that it is not the tools, it is the hands, not one of us said thin hones will not work, but Newbs tend to latch onto any crutch they can to figure out why things are not working for them..

If you tell them a Thin hone is better they will believe it they will latch onto and then continue the myth thinking it was the hone,, and not realizing it was actually their new found honing skills (Practice)
A thin hone might very well work better for "YOU" nobody is disputing that. but when you say it is better BECAUSE of some geometric principle that you tried to illustrate then yes I say that is incorrect

ps: Honestly I don't care if you are tired of repeating yourself you can stop any time you chose

pps: Think about this just one second I own a full set of cutdowns I hone a lot of razors, many of those razors are Older Restored Sheffield's the exact razor that are prone to these issues.. Don't you think if it were actually easier and faster and better I would be using it ??? Seriously ???? I will take any advantage that I possibly can..
This is simply not an advantage ...

In my opinion, newbs ought to latch onto every idea they can. How else are they to get experience and learn the way that suits them best? Trying to learn any skill by only listening to others is a fool's errand IMO. Trial and error is, and should be, king here.

A narrow hone (or side of the stone is even better) IS going to be better for some people. This is a matter of preference IMO. Buying a narrow stone is a waste of $$ to me, I would never advocate that - newbs, if you want to try it, use the side of the stone! Because someone prefers/likes a way different than yours it is a myth? Again with all due respect I find that a little arrogant honestly. If you like the wide stone better, use it! If the narrower honing area doesn't give you an advantage, that's fine. It does for me. There's no need to go around saying things that others prefer are a myth though. Of course people will take that personally. I am not alone in that, I've gotten a couple supportive PMs from people who seem to be afraid to say anything contrary to certain established members as well.

Additionally, I wouldn't need to repeat myself in many cases if people would read a little better.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

That is simply not a true statement .

Do it all the time,, and teach that exact technique at the Meets

NOT being insulting here,,,, but do you know what a Heel Forward stroke is ??? sometimes also called a 45 Degree Heel Forward stoke ???

Really? And you seriously aren't trying to be insulting? I too have been honing razors for many years, though I haven't been talking about it in the internet as long as some.

Heel forward doesn't change the laws of physics or geometry! A razor with a concave bevel will STILL hit on the toe and the corner of the stone, no matter HOW you position it! Unless you are hanging the toe off the end of the stone... And then you are pretty much using the narrow hone and should have mentioned that point in the beginning! You'd still be doing most of the work with the corner though, just a different one.

Originally Posted by eKretz

Additionally, I wouldn't need to repeat myself in many cases if people would read a little better.

Advice given should often be taken


Not one of us here in the has told you that a narrow hone doesn't work as well as a wide hone, no one

The only time you got push back was when you said it was better, and that it was Impossible to achieve on a wide hone..

That was your doing..