Thread: Pressure!

Originally Posted by eKretz

I will just say I disagree on this point. IMO some pressure is okay under certain conditions on higher grit stones but no more than the oft-mentioned "eraser" level pressure, and it needs to be reduced to "weight of the razor" pressure before moving on in a progression or calling the edge finished. I much prefer using a small amount of pressure when finishing with certain stones so as to get the same sort of effect that taping the spine gives - the work is concentrated at the apex this way and the job is done faster and it gives really great edges. This isn't necessary for all stones though - mostly I use it when doing dilutions from slurry since many times natural stones barely cut on straight water without slurry, and the tiny bit of convexing often needs to be removed to get a true edge.

Of course, it's ok to use some pressure. But as you said, "to get the job faster" or the "convexing", i.e. (micro)bevel, that needs to be removed. You can do that with a coarser stone, thicker slurry or more laps.
Also, by diluting the slurry, there is not a huge difference in edge refinement, as long as you've removed the scratches of the previous stone, and, unless you are using the "one stone honing" method after the 1k, don't sweat about it.
It's more of a habit than a ritual that has to be performed to get the extraordinary edge by my opinion. Indeed, some stones are extremely slow, and that's why we use slurry and/or a lot of elbow grease.
Every stone is different, and given enough time, you can learn it's tricks, but, honing is science. There are nothing mystical about it, the stones or the razors.

No the tiny convexing I'm talking about is created by the finishing stone. Is on a small level, but if one then switches to straight water, many natural stones no longer have enough cutting power to take the bevel down far enough to reach the apex. Using a small amount of pressure when honing with slurry and then using almost none with straight water accomplishes the same thing that a long protracted slurry dilution does, but in 1/4 the time.

My objection was with your statement that pressure is useless on finishing stones. It sounds like you've changed your mind? Or maybe I misunderstood your earlier post.

I don't think anyone is claiming there is any mysticism involved, not sure why that came up.

Originally Posted by eKretz

Alternatively, if you have a razor that is way out of whack and don't want to remove a ton of steel you can use narrower stones for all the work and that will allow the razor to hit all along the edge a bit easier as well.

Alternatively, you can correct your honing stroke on your current hones, rather than investing in more hones.

Draw a pencil line one inch from, and parallel to, the hone's edge that is closest to your honing hand. Now imagine that one inch strip to be your narrow hone. Focus your honing ONLY on that one inch strip exactly as if it only is a one inch wide hone.

Now that you have a set narrow hones, you will need to learn how to use them. When you do, your honing contact issue will disappear.

Originally Posted by eKretz

I will just say I disagree on this point. IMO some pressure is okay under certain conditions on higher grit stones but no more than the oft-mentioned "eraser" level pressure, and it needs to be reduced to "weight of the razor" pressure before moving on in a progression or calling the edge finished. I much prefer using a small amount of pressure when finishing with certain stones so as to get the same sort of effect that taping the spine gives - the work is concentrated at the apex this way and the job is done faster and it gives really great edges. This isn't necessary for all stones though - mostly I use it when doing dilutions from slurry since many times natural stones barely cut on straight water without slurry, and the tiny bit of convexing often needs to be removed to get a true edge.

Nope , quite the opposite. The lighter the presure the more your honing wil concentrate on the apex & mimic using tape.

Pressure will always flex the razor & hone the bevel more than the edge.

Yes, no kidding! That's exactly what I said. Using a little pressure first causes the razor to flex, removing material behind the edge. Switching to lighter pressure for finishing then concentrates the work being done at the apex.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Alternatively, you can correct your honing stroke on your current hones, rather than investing in more hones.

Draw a pencil line one inch from, and parallel to, the hone's edge that is closest to your honing hand. Now imagine that one inch strip to be your narrow hone. Focus your honing ONLY on that one inch strip exactly as if it only is a one inch wide hone.

Now that you have a set narrow hones, you will need to learn how to use them. When you do, your honing contact issue will disappear.

I see this claim all the time, and no, that's not correct. On a razor that is crooked or warped, it will work just the same on the side of the razor that is shaped in a convex manner from heel to toe, but on the opposite side it will hit at the heel and toe only, and then will make contact with the toe and the part of the razor that is contacting the edge of the stone as it's drawn off with an x-stroke. The same goes for a razor with a frown but the problem will be on both sides rather than only one. The narrower hone doesn't solve this problem, but allows the amount of steel removal to be lessened before full contact is achieved.

Originally Posted by eKretz

I see this claim all the time, and no, that's not correct. It will work just the same on the side of the razor that is shaped in a convex manner from heel to toe, but on the opposite side it will hit at the heel and toe only, and then will make contact with the toe and the part of the razor that is contacting the edge of the stone as it's drawn off with an x-stroke. The narrower hone doesn't solve this problem, but allows the amount of steel removal to be lessened before full contact is achieved.

Then go ahead and buy a set of narrow hones and learn from them. Alternatively, draw a line with a pencil.

Originally Posted by eKretz

Yes, no kidding! That's exactly what I said. Using a little pressure first causes the razor to flex, removing material behind the edge. Switching to lighter pressure for finishing then concentrates the work being done at the apex.

Sorry I understood the below quote meant you used pressure when finishing"
"I much prefer using a small amount of pressure when finishing with certain stones so as to get the same sort of effect that taping the spine gives - the work is concentrated at the apex this way and the job is done faster and it gives really great edges. "

The wide stone used as a narrow hone works fine. It just takes some gymnastics to work. You just have to lift the toe slightly to avoid contact.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Nope , quite the opposite. The lighter the presure the more your honing wil concentrate on the apex & mimic using tape.

Pressure will always flex the razor & hone the bevel more than the edge.

This is what I got out of the comment also. And we went from frown to warp ?

I like to take care of all my "issues " at the 1k level. From then on I am working to smooth things out and refine the edge like a normal hone job.
Warped blades,,, yes, I put on my tights and start doing gymnastics all the way through :<0)

Oh and to the OP , it sounds like you left a lot of blade thickness on the bevel in spots and left the 1k too soon with too much pressure at the end of it. Just the impression I get from your statements.

When dealing with a warped blade, many times I will simply hone along the edge of a stone, watch the pressure!