Thread: Pressure!

Honest it really is a myth you can argue it and try and dispel it all you want,,

You can draw and theorize all you want too... BUT Simply take your wide hone and only use 1 inch of it and it will all make sense it is the "Stroke" not the hone...

There are dozens of threads about it on here, simply try it and learn I know it seems as if it is logical that a thin hone works easier and if you can't relate the stroke over to a wide hone then yes it is easier "FOR YOU".. But there honestly is no difference once you realize it is all in the gymnastics of the stroke

With all due respect, no, honest it's not. You can not possibly only use the 1" or whatever of the wider hone you "marked off" on a razor with a frown or concave warp if the stone is flat unless you lift the toe out of contact with the stone and use only the corner of the stone - it's physically impossible to do so. The concavity of the razor will hold it off of the hone at the 1" mark because the end of the razor will be hitting on the hone farther over on the toe side. Think about it.

The same exact thing will happen with the narrow hone but there will be less of a gap due to the concavity because the distance between points on the "radius" of the concavity is less. Thus less steel needs to be removed to make full contact.

Can't explain it much clearer than this:



As you can see, there is no physically possible magic or gymnastical stroke that will let you use only the marked off narrow bit of the wide stone.

Edit: just noticed I forgot a 'g' in exaggerated also... D'oh!

Originally Posted by eKretz

Can't explain it much clearer than this:As you can see, there is no physically possible magic or gymnastical stroke that will let you use only the marked off narrow bit of the wide stone.

That's not the way it works on wide stones, you have to keep the razor inside the marked line.

Somehow I could see exactly what you would draw but honestly that isn't the way it really works..

Please just go try it and adjust your stroke to fit the razor..

Now if you want to say it is easier for "You" to hone on thin hones like Oz pointed out already that is one thing but please don't try and say it is advantageous or harder or impossible, I do it every single day it is simply a matter of adjusting the stroke to be the exact same stroke as you do on a 1 inch hone to a 3 inch hone and it works the same,,

It is a myth always has been but people continue to perpetrate it because it seems logical...


When you are honing the contact point of the edge to the hone can be smaller or larger all dependent on the geometry of the razor, and the movements of your hand... You have ultimate adjustment on that, the width of the hone makes no difference..

EXCEPT

When the geometry of the razor allows for a larger contact surface, then a wider hone would be advantageous


Or

Read above about pressure, that exact same principle applies to issues with geometrically challenged razors, you have to adjust the stroke so that the ripple of water is always there, that works for pressure and for the contact point of the edge to the hone..

I am having a hard time with your drawing. 1st. Concave, frown and warp are 3 different things. 1 of which goes in the opposite direction of the other 2 according to radius. I won't even get into what a little pressure does to the perfect straight line theory you are using as logic and or what it does to your argument.

We all try to keep each other heading in the same direction for success and sometimes that is like herding cats. Your first post was great until the last line. You went off road there and it looks like your not coming back for what ever reason. I am sure whatever your doing is working for you and your razors and I applaud you for that. It just seems like your tongue is getting in front of your eye tooth and you can't see what your saying :<0)

It is what it is and I am tired of going back and forth over it honestly. It is true that a razor with a frown may or may not have a concave surface in contact with the hone, but a warped razor will definitely have one concave side. And again for the record, I never said a wide hone would not work. I only said it won't work as well and will take longer to make full contact than a narrow one on a razor that has a concave bevel. That is called an opinion - just like any of your opinions saying that it will work just as well and just as fast.

Yes my way works great for me, as I'm sure yours (collectively) works great for you. I believe we have gone about as far as we're going to go with this discussion as we're clearly at an impasse. So, as I said previously, let's just go on with you doing things your way and I'll do them my way and leave it at that. Mayhaps one or the other of us will see things differently one day... Or maybe we won't. No matter, and as far as I'm concerned, still friends!

Okay, I'll let you have the last word friend :<0)

Haha, you're all right... No matter what Glen always says about you!

J/K!

I have poor people skills. I have been told that many times and in many ways. Some friends, and yes I do have a few, tell me that I'm not that bad, but I often am reminded of my many shortcomings. However, I'm still learning--both at how to limit my basic nature and how to hone, among other things. Regarding the issue here, I could have argued about it more--really, I could; but instead I decided to avoid this thread for a day.

Now I'm back and I'll just say this.

I USED TO remove my full size single grit Norton hones from their tri-hone mount to hone on their narrow edges, but I became concerned I would narrow them too much and they would no longer clamp into place so I bought a set of four narrow single grit hones because I thought it was obvious that geometry, as described in this thread, dictated that I had to have narrow hones.

I have not used them in years. I don't need them anymore. The razors I hone did not get better. I just learned how to hone such warped blades without ever needing a narrow hone. If anyone thinks they still need narrow hones, mine are still available--and nearly pristine.