Thread: les latneuses coticule or Thuringain?

Originally Posted by Pithor

And if we're talking about the MST/Müller Thuringians (they are Thüringers, as they are from the Thüringen area), I've not had the pleasure of using one myself, but I've heard both "not much different from vintage Thuringians" and "definitely inferior to vintage Thuringians". Presumably they will put a shaveable edge on a razor, but the nuance may be something to argue over. But again, I have never used one. They're not very expensive, though, so I might consider at some point. Just to try.

Years ago Russell Baldridge, a honemiester on SRP from back then, did a review praising a particular Müller Thuringian, and I picked one up from a member for $50.00. A 6"x2 1/2" IIRC. I followed the method Russell had posted, and the stone was pretty good. It was not up to the level of my Escher and I sold it shortly thereafter.

OTOH, Tony Miller, the strop maker, used to stock and sell Müller Thuringians. He told me that he stopped carrying them because too many of them had hard inclusions. So the quality varied. The one I happened on was a good one, inclusion free, but apparently some of them were not as good. I don't know what is going on with the vendor, or his stock, at the present time. I guess you pays your money and takes your chances.

In messing around with coticules and thuringans I've used a coticule to sharpen, followed with a thuri to finish with good results. Used a Norton 4/8 (after setting the bevel on a 1k) and followed with a coticule, and/or a thuringan. Just experimenting with different combinations. In general it was all good.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Years ago Russell Baldridge, a honemiester on SRP from back then, did a review praising a particular Müller Thuringian, and I picked one up from a member for $50.00. A 6"x2 1/2" IIRC. I followed the method Russell had posted, and the stone was pretty good. It was not up to the level of my Escher and I sold it shortly thereafter.

OTOH, Tony Miller, the strop maker, used to stock and sell Müller Thuringians. He told me that he stopped carrying them because too many of them had hard inclusions. So the quality varied. The one I happened on was a good one, inclusion free, but apparently some of them were not as good. I don't know what is going on with the vendor, or his stock, at the present time. I guess you pays your money and takes your chances.

In messing around with coticules and thuringans I've used a coticule to sharpen, followed with a thuri to finish with good results. Used a Norton 4/8 (after setting the bevel on a 1k) and followed with a coticule, and/or a thuringan. Just experimenting with different combinations. In general it was all good.

Just wearing a tin foil hat, one would wonder why a large chunk of rock wasn't sold by a company that literally made their business selling the stuff, and then ran out of it and closed their doors.

The large MST I had was really not any better than an american flea market slate, and it left a very cloudy finish, coarse, and a dull edge. I'm sure there's some variability.

BUT, I'd like to make the point that there's nothing that special about eschers and vintage y/g thuris *except* that they are incredibly consistent. You get one, you get a good one. There's no great reason to take chances on new ones at the same price.

Most of the ones that sell for $600 can be outclassed by a $75 piece of jnat koppa, but a sometimes those are not as easy to use and sometimes they just aren't as good as expected. That consistency (along with the vintage label for collectors) is where the money is.

The whole presentation of the stones on the timbertools page rubs me the wrong way. The grit quote for the bigger stones sounds suspect, because a relative ballpark guess at an escher would be somewhere around the number they provide.

Originally Posted by DaveW

BUT, I'd like to make the point that there's nothing that special about eschers and vintage y/g thuris *except* that they are incredibly consistent. You get one, you get a good one. There's no great reason to take chances on new ones at the same price.

Most of the ones that sell for $600 can be outclassed by a $75 piece of jnat koppa, but a sometimes those are not as easy to use and sometimes they just aren't as good as expected. That consistency (along with the vintage label for collectors) is where the money is.

I can underline not to invest in a new mined stone...actually if a JNAT Koppa rules out a Thuringian has in my point of view also to do how you prefer your edges to be. Actually i tried several edges of JNATs owning two Ohzukos, having tested a Nakayama and actually having two for testing here at my home...

And i just did not come around with those JNATS...i prefer the results from Thuringian stones...
So i just want to point out that its also an Topic of personal preference...

Originally Posted by doorsch

I can underline not to invest in a new mined stone...actually if a JNAT Koppa rules out a Thuringian has in my point of view also to do how you prefer your edges to be. Actually i tried several edges of JNATs owning two Ohzukos, having tested a Nakayama and actually having two for testing here at my home...

And i just did not come around with those JNATS...i prefer the results from Thuringian stones...
So i just want to point out that its also an Topic of personal preference...

Certainly. I think a lot of vintage barber hones that are japanese are more mellow than ozuku koppa. I've had two ozuku stones, a coarse one and a fine one, and the fine ones can refuse to release particles and be very cold feeling. The other one I use in my shop, that hardness isn't bad with tools, especially tools that have jigane (soft backing pulls particles off of a stone a lot better than hardened steel).

At any rate, that just keys back to what makes thuris trusted, they're consistent and plenty fine enough for a comfortable shave. Some jnats seem to exceed them (especially as far as sharpness goes), though, but not all, and like you say, personal opinion about what "exceeding" qualifies as applies to the situation.

Recently, last week or so, a 6 in labeled Escher sold for around $150. It would make a great finisher. For final finisher you do not need a large stone, large stones are nicer, but a 6 in stone, is plenty good.

Buy the largest, best stone you can afford.

What would be a good price range to look for on a Les Lat?