Thread: Nakayama Maruka

Are these Amrukas all that superior to other nakayamas without a stamp?

Also any feedback on these marukas please

Nakayama Maruka Hatahoshi Natural Whetstone 1611.2g (3Lb. 8.9oz. )

Nakayama Maruka Asagi Natural Whetstone 1432g (3Lb. 2.5oz. )

You cannot tell from pictures how a stone will perform in your hands but Hatanaka san is known for top shelf stones, not just Maruka stamped ones.
That does not make unstamped stones inferior.

sstomcat,

FYI

+1 on 'Aframes Tokyo' : their service is outstanding. I recently bought some tomo-nagura from them (Shoubudani Asagi, Wakasa Asagi, Okudo Suita & Ozuku Asagi) and they arrived in the UK in four (4) days, and the stones were excellent (and large !!).

Have fun

Best regards

Russ

No, maruka stamps don't make the stones superior. They are not the Eschers of the Thuringians, they are just stamps on good stones, that drive quite high the price. But you can find a similar stone without a stamp that performs just as good.
And, I agree, Aframes Tokyo has great stones and service. For shipping it took me 60something days (Greece), that was the only odd thing.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

No, maruka stamps don't make the stones superior. They are not the Eschers of the Thuringians, they are just stamps on good stones, that drive quite high the price. But you can find a similar stone without a stamp that performs just as good.

Interestingly, to me what you are describing above for Nakayama vs "Nakayama with Maruka stamp" exactly matches the "Thuringian with Escher label" vs "unlabeled Thuringian" relationship:

Neither the stamp nor the label make the stone superior to their unstamped or unlabelled fellow hones. What it does is to give the buyer the reassurance to buy a confirmed and selected specimen (unless it's faked ).

I have both vintage Thuringians and Eschers and the Eschers are in no way superior. Likewise, my Nakayama Maruka is not better than my "normal" Nakayama.

Just my two Euro cents ...

Cheers
Jörg

Gentlemen, Thank you for the very thoughtful feedback.
Jorg nailed it that a stamp gives the assurance about quality and authenticity not considering the fake stamps.

I'm new but not new to shaving and specially honing. Used to use mainly synthetic stones (all kinds) but want to explore the world of real stones for fun.
Aframes has host of stones with interesting names and titles most of which sound Greek and Hebrew to me. I will appreciate if you guys can point me to a selection to get a v good quality Nakayama (not really particular about stamp). I plan to use and keep it .Thanks a ton.
Cheers.

I would be mad to pay more than $200 US for a stone.. be it german, belgian, or japanese, but thats just me. I owned 6 jnats, currently 3, most of which cost less than $90 and do an excellent job. Some level 5, some level 5+, some level 3 and 3+ (this is all subjective from my limited experience).

Here, you would be paying for the looks and the weight. The surface does seem flawless.. but that doesn't mean that an Ozuku, or Shobu Asagi for ~$250-$350 would be a worse choice. Perhaps for your first jnat, it would be worth looking at JNS Shoubudani 100. Costs about less than $100 with a slurry stone. Additionally, JNS has some great Nakayamas which cost half of that price.

Originally Posted by Srdjan

I would be mad to pay more than $200 US for a stone.. be it german, belgian, or japanese, but thats just me. I owned 6 jnats, currently 3, most of which cost less than $90 and do an excellent job. Some level 5, some level 5+, some level 3 and 3+ (this is all subjective from my limited experience).

Here, you would be paying for the looks and the weight. The surface does seem flawless.. but that doesn't mean that an Ozuku, or Shobu Asagi for ~$250-$350 would be a worse choice. Perhaps for your first jnat, it would be worth looking at JNS Shoubudani 100. Costs about less than $100 with a slurry stone. Additionally, JNS has some great Nakayamas which cost half of that price.

Once upon a time (like, until two years ago ) I was thinking the same way, and had 50 different types of stones with the most expensive at 100 euro. Then, I started selling them. I sold many, and with the money I made selling them, bought few. Then I realized that, pretty much, you get what you pay for. Each and every one of those 50 stones didn't hold a candle in front of a good Jnat (some did, but they were rare pieces of rare stones). Or a white TOS I had and still miss, it was one of a kind. Or a quality Charnley, Thuri, WOA. There were a few nice in these 50, but the expensive ones are better than the cheaper ones. And now I have 5-6 stones that I love, regularly use and are expensive.
And another lesson, there is also the matter of the seller. If he has 50 Thuringians or coticules, common sense says, he'll sell his worst pieces first and his best last.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

Once upon a time (like, until two years ago ) I was thinking the same way, and had 50 different types of stones with the most expensive at 100 euro. Then, I started selling them. I sold many, and with the money I made selling them, bought few. Then I realized that, pretty much, you get what you pay for. Each and every one of those 50 stones didn't hold a candle in front of a good Jnat (some did, but they were rare pieces of rare stones). Or a white TOS I had and still miss, it was one of a kind. Or a quality Charnley, Thuri, WOA. There were a few nice in these 50, but the expensive ones are better than the cheaper ones. And now I have 5-6 stones that I love, regularly use and are expensive.
And another lesson, there is also the matter of the seller. If he has 50 Thuringians or coticules, common sense says, he'll sell his worst pieces first and his best last.

Agreed. Better stones cost more, but "better" usually doesn't mean better for a specific purpose since people buy these stones for tools, knives, and razors, and what's good for one is not necessarily the best for the others.

Kato-San stamped "Maruka" (circle ka, a circle around the first letter of his name) to designate a superior quality stone, but as he was a miner, he had no idea what purpose people would be using the stones for. It just meant it was a purer, more consistent, and regular stone.

I absolutely agree with Vasilis last statement, and it's why I buy stones from dealers and not other enthusiasts. I won't sell the best of my collection, but stone dealers will, it's their business and they can't keep them all or they wouldn't make money. Takeshi-San once told me that about 2% of his inventory was the quality of the old selected stones, and that's really what you're looking for -in razor grade - and they won't be cheap.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by Vasilis

Once upon a time (like, until two years ago [emoji14] ) I was thinking the same way, and had 50 different types of stones with the most expensive at 100 euro. Then, I started selling them. I sold many, and with the money I made selling them, bought few. Then I realized that, pretty much, you get what you pay for. Each and every one of those 50 stones didn't hold a candle in front of a good Jnat (some did, but they were rare pieces of rare stones). Or a white TOS I had and still miss, it was one of a kind. Or a quality Charnley, Thuri, WOA. There were a few nice in these 50, but the expensive ones are better than the cheaper ones. And now I have 5-6 stones that I love, regularly use and are expensive.
And another lesson, there is also the matter of the seller. If he has 50 Thuringians or coticules, common sense says, he'll sell his worst pieces first and his best last.

I guess I've been lucky... and I had the time to explore and make the cheap stones do what I needed them to do. [emoji6] All the stones I've tried so far have provided exactly as advertised and more. Even the softer jnats, as long as their grain is fine, can deliver a shave-ready edge. The issue I find important is the speed at which a stone achieves the result. That's a strong and valid selling point, next to the grade of the stone. Personally, I don't really care for the looks that much and boy, do I hate the marketing game around some of these.

Anyway, in the $300-$500 price range, one can surely find an awesome stone to finish a razor. Why pay a thousand, or more? Is the edge really that different? I have no idea, one day I will meet you in person and you'll show me, OK? [emoji6] Then I'll start selling all the stones I have and MAYBE I'll put together enough money for a really special stone.

Still, until that day, if the razor shaves flawlessly, then the stone is good enough for me. I agree some stones are harder to finish on then the others, which is also a valid selling point. This especially plays an important role for the people who, unlike me, you I guess and a bunch of others, don't want/have the time, to explore and play with a bunch rock to figure out what it can and cannot do. That's where "you (hopefully) get what you paid for" comes into play once again. This time it's not so much about the rock itself, but the time, effort, sometimes the nerves, etc...