Thread: Nakayama Maruka

I just honed up a blade.
After the 10k I decided to try the Nakayama with the DMT , its a credit card 1200 mesh.

I use this card to make slurries with the Chosera 1k and 5k, it feels worn and really smooth.
So made a slurry with near enough no pressure.
The slurry which was dark brown on a darkish stone makes it hard to see if its turning darker with metal.
Either way I honed away using 3 dilutions and then 5 laps with water.
The blade is popping hairs easily but I have to wait a few days for growth to test it.

I then decided to hone up another blade seen as I had the Chosera's soaked.
When I came to my Jnat I decided to use the Koma stone which is white or more of a cream colour .
Making a slurry I could see straight away that the slurry was very dark, meaning the DMT had disturbed the stones surface.
So I used a Tomo with pressure to get it smoothed out and not giving up its goods so easily.

This reminded me of when I lap the stone and then smoothen it out with a Nagura, the slurry is very dark because until it gets smoothed out then the slurry is purely the colour of the Nagura.

Maybe I should try to wear the DMT down more?

Originally Posted by JOB15

I just honed up a blade.
After the 10k I decided to try the Nakayama with the DMT , its a credit card 1200 mesh.

I use this card to make slurries with the Chosera 1k and 5k, it feels worn and really smooth.
So made a slurry with near enough no pressure.
The slurry which was dark brown on a darkish stone makes it hard to see if its turning darker with metal.
Either way I honed away using 3 dilutions and then 5 laps with water.
The blade is popping hairs easily but I have to wait a few days for growth to test it.

I then decided to hone up another blade seen as I had the Chosera's soaked.
When I came to my Jnat I decided to use the Koma stone which is white or more of a cream colour .
Making a slurry I could see straight away that the slurry was very dark, meaning the DMT had disturbed the stones surface.
So I used a Tomo with pressure to get it smoothed out and not giving up its goods so easily.

This reminded me of when I lap the stone and then smoothen it out with a Nagura, the slurry is very dark because until it gets smoothed out then the slurry is purely the colour of the Nagura.

Maybe I should try to wear the DMT down more?

I know more about atoma diamond plates than DMTs, but from what I do know and have seen more than a few times, it's not a good idea to use a DMT or Eze-Lap fine grade plates for slurry making. Both companies explicitly say not to do that, and a lot of people have seen why. It's much easier to have particles dislodged and becoming part of the slurry. And that happens in a faster rate if there is already slurry and you are trying to generate more. Anything finer than the 325 grit is not a safe choice for slurry making, even the 325 can give you problems. And, you also have to wear the plate a little, because in its early stages, a lot of particles are in relatively loose position, and will be removed from the surface of the plate when they have the chance.
As for the atoma plates, they are different, and can be used from 120 to 1200 without any problems, and don't require to be well worn either, although it wouldn't hurt.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

I know more about atoma diamond plates than DMTs, but from what I do know and have seen more than a few times, it's not a good idea to use a DMT or Eze-Lap fine grade plates for slurry making. Both companies explicitly say not to do that, and a lot of people have seen why. It's much easier to have particles dislodged and becoming part of the slurry. And that happens in a faster rate if there is already slurry and you are trying to generate more. Anything finer than the 325 grit is not a safe choice for slurry making, even the 325 can give you problems. And, you also have to wear the plate a little, because in its early stages, a lot of particles are in relatively loose position, and will be removed from the surface of the plate when they have the chance.
As for the atoma plates, they are different, and can be used from 120 to 1200 without any problems, and don't require to be well worn either, although it wouldn't hurt.

I have 2 Atoma 1200 plates. Either way if they do anything other than visibly polish my Jnat I don't wanna use them

But the point is to use them to create a very fine slurry consisting of particles coming from the original hone. This in turn is used to polish the bevel on your razor.

Originally Posted by sstomcat

But the point is to use them to create a very fine slurry consisting of particles coming from the original hone. This in turn is used to polish the bevel on your razor.

Yes but not at the expense of scratching or roughing up my Nakayamas surface

If you produce slurry, you produce scratches.

I don't care for the diamond plate to make visible scratches, so the one I use with all the diamonds missing in the center does not. But it does produce some at some level, otherwise it would not generate slurry and neither would a tomo nagura.

I only use a diamond slurry plate for that use, it's mellowed out and when it's suitable for generating slurry, I want it to last as long as posiible in this capacity so it is not used for anything else.

Everyone has to do what they're comfortable with so YMMV.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by JOB15

I have 2 Atoma 1200 plates. Either way if they do anything other than visibly polish my Jnat I don't wanna use them

The wear from an atoma 1200 will be about two microns, even less. By this rate, how long do you estimate your stone to last, every time you raise slurry? We are not talking about translucent Arkansas stones. Jnats have a specific particle size no matter how you want them to release it. And even if you were to produce a 10 or 20 micron sized particles from a coarse diamond plate, they would brake to their actual size, about 2-3micron fast. I expect most of you to know that the looks don't matter too much on hones, among other things. Having a mirror polished surface and trying to keep it this way no matter what is not what honing is about.

PS: C stands for Coarse

Originally Posted by Vasilis

The wear from an atoma 1200 will be about two microns, even less. By this rate, how long do you estimate your stone to last, every time you raise slurry? We are not talking about translucent Arkansas stones. Jnats have a specific particle size no matter how you want them to release it. And even if you were to produce a 10 or 20 micron sized particles from a coarse diamond plate, they would brake to their actual size, about 2-3micron fast. I expect most of you to know that the looks don't matter too much on hones, among other things. Having a mirror polished surface and trying to keep it this way no matter what is not what honing is about.

PS: C stands for Coarse

I've been lead to believe that a mirrored finish is whats best for honing on a Jnat.

The fact that my hone is releasing a lot more slurry with a Nagura , after DMT usage , means that the surface has been roughed up and that cant be good. Or at least I think it cant be good.
When I use a pure white chalk nagura , I expect white slurry not brown slurry.


Maybe the fact that my stone produces dark brown slurry makes these things more obvious?

OK back to the topic of Marukas, is color like dull yellow, light green, bands of brown/red or grey a tell tale sign of quality? or purely aesthetics driving prices?
I know that yellowish Kittas are in highest demand, and they do look good specially those that are uniform and homogenous, over the mundane greyish Asagi Marukas, but is there more to it than the looks?

Originally Posted by JOB15

I've been lead to believe that a mirrored finish is whats best for honing on a Jnat.

The fact that my hone is releasing a lot more slurry with a Nagura , after DMT usage , means that the surface has been roughed up and that cant be good. Or at least I think it cant be good.
When I use a pure white chalk nagura , I expect white slurry not brown slurry.


Maybe the fact that my stone produces dark brown slurry makes these things more obvious?

The fact that your hone releases more slurry with nagura after a DMT is what I described above. No matter how harsh the surface is (or the particles of the surface, or loose particles, they follow the same laws), it has the tendency to return to its original fine, smooth state, with the bigger particles that brake down easily. And, it's not a unique thing on Jnats. It also happens to all naturals and man made stones.
Indeed, I wouldn't suggest to lap it with 36 loose grit and hone right after, but you don't have to keep the surface as smooth as possible always, there is not such a big difference between a 400# mate or a mirror surface on the stone. Unless it's an Arkie, Llyn Idwal or any of these painfully hard stones. Also, keeping a somewhat harsher surface allows the razor to glide more smoothly over the stones, if you have a problem with the suction some stones cause, again, without a difference on their finishing performance.
And, if you prefer to finish on water only, use running water on the final steps of honing, no stray big particles, or autoslurrying will get in your way.



" What would happen if I used a diamond plate on a diamond plate? Would the world end? "

Yup, that's how you travel to different dimensions. But it's one way trip, because they will be damaged, and there will be no way to return.