Thread: General information about Atago natural Japanese hones

[QUOTE=Vasilis;1573693]Something else I would like to ask, and I think it is somehow important, if the Imanishi labels have a meaning.
On their stamp about the stone's grade, like the link from Dave http://www.thebestthings.com/newtool...ne_atago_1.jpg (thanks Dave, I discovered it with your help) I have seen two stamps; the 一本線 and the XXX品 (I can't read these handwritten like "fluid" kanji, not even find them by radicals).
The stones with the 一本線 grade label are from 20% to higher than 50% more expensive than the stones with the XXX品 stamp (the link above has it).
So, is there a difference between them? They appear to be taking it seriously.

QUOTE]

Japanese is beyond me, and speaking Japanese is all related the subject at hand. For instance the word with the same kanji "Hon" can mean things like a book too.

About Imanishi-san, a member of the Kyoto Toishi Miners Union. He is very respectable, and knowledgeable. The ink stamps he uses are pretty standard and within the industry the wording on the stamps is really more of a suggestion of the quality or the origin or the size. Grade 24 is a stone industry designation for a size within some parameters, but obviously the word Hon can be uses freely by any miner or wholesaler. Maroyama has it's own stamp for their active mine and is it unlikely that anyone in the business would infringe on that name, the same with Ohira. Anyone is free these days to use the name Nakayama, or Shinden or Okudo and to have stamps made up with those old names because there really isn't a Nakayama mine anymore, or an Oozuku mine. Imanishi owns Nakayama and Okudo and Oozuku stamps, I bought a stone from him that was stamped Nakayama. I think that JNS buys most of their stones from Inmanishi-san, and am guessing that he stamps up everything including the wooden boxes for JNS before they are shipped.

A couple of years ago the Kyoto Toishi Miners Union held a meeting for their last 8 remaining members and the subject came up about the underground use of ink stamps that were popping up and they decided that there was no harm and no foul in using these old names of designated closed mines, and that if improper use took place that there was not code or police to enforce the situation. So after that Hitomi-san of Kameoka and Imanishi-san of Kyoto and the Hatanaka Toishi Company and I suspect that a nephew of Kato-san are all using ink stamps beyond those of their own companies names logo. Of course Nakaoka-san aka. 330Mate does this too although he is not and will never be a member of the Union

The actual grading of stones, sorting sizes and ascribing qualities that take into account like flaws in shape and composition is first done by the miners who usually cut up and lapped the tops of the stones. This categorizes the stone so when offered to the wholesalers in Kyoto or Osaka both parties are talking about the same thing. The wholesalers then are now and were in the old days the main ink stamp guys who used ink stamps like advertising. These stamps also aided the retailers in promoting their products, and some stores even added their own stamps too. So we shouldn't look at these ink stamps on the stones as the words of the stone gods in regards to purity or cutting/abrasive qualities. They might suggest the correct size, or allude to a strata or type of stone, or maybe even to their quality like #1 or #2 quality. Lots and lots of stones are marked "suita" but hardly any stones are marked "tomae or karasu or kiita" because these are only names used by the miners or wholesalers.

In the old days there were distinct divisions between miner, wholesaler and retailer and the general user public. The miners did not sell directly to the public, nor did the wholesaler. For an orderly society each division was allowed to operate freely within and to make an honest profit. As the mines closed that division was eliminated, many of the wholesalers lost their source of supply so many of them are gone and some now operate retail stores, and the general public can buy internationally and cut out many of those divisions. The use of ink stamps has followed suit.

Regarding the Atago, Ohira and Maruoyama mines and others out near Kameoka and also a few mines to the north east of Kyoto towards Fukui and Lake Biwa. These are recent mines (1800s - 1900s) but I doubt that they were recently found. I think that Maruoyama was more recent, but those other mines closer into Mt. Atago most likely were scouted out a long, long time ago by miners looking for that next Mother Lode similar to how Nakayama turned out to be. The Kameoka is only about 12 miles from the city limits of Kyoto and I am sure that Walkers, buy who are out walking and looking for game and foraging in that area were always looking for stones which on the ridges can lay bare.

So next I ask, why now, why is it that these more recent mines that have only existed for the last one or two hundred years, and why are they still producing stones. I speculate that it has to do with the need and the quality. The famous mines are now closed, so that takes care of the need, new stones are still needed to hit the market. The quality part of this, and I don't want to be insulting, but the quality of the Kameoka mines is different than the stones from the closed up famous mines. Ohira lucked out because they have an excellent layer of uchigumori although their suita lacks the cutting power that Okudo or Narutaki or Nakayama had. Maruoyama has all of the strata but the stones that I have tried from there were slow and tended to polish more than they cut. I have only tested one Atagoyama stone.

I used to buy from Ohira, but that was when he had a deep selection and I bought some Nakayama stones from him that he got in exchange for his bulldozer work with Kato_san in the 1960s. I still have a cordial relationship with Ishihara'san. The testing of the Maruoyama or the Atagoyama did not inspire me to buy any of their stones. When the famous eastern mines closed the western mines filled a gap, but in the last half of the 20th and now in the 21st century the performance demands in Japan are lowered in the trades, and foreign buyers don't always have a chance to test stones before purchase like they do in Japan, so these western mines will still maintain some business because they are really unique in this modern world. Maruoyama are really trying hard, and they are aided by scientific testing too. I do wish them all luck.

Alex