Thread: My first jnat

Originally Posted by sqzbxr

I'm going to jump in with a question of my own, and since it involves a Shobudani, is directly relevant to the OP's original post:

I bought a secondhand Shobudani Asagi a few weeks ago from another (ahem) forum. According to the receipt, the original purchaser got it directly from Maksim at JNS last fall. It arrived in excellent condition in the original JNS box, well packed, and with a nagura that I believe is a Tomo.

Here's my issue: I can either get a smooth but not too sharp edge, or a sharp but uncomfortable edge from this stone. I've been honing razors for some years now, and except for bevel setters I have only used coticules and Thuringians for the last year or so. I am only using the Shobu as a finisher at this point, after going through bevel setter and coticule(s) as needed. When I switch to the Shobu, I'm usually getting HHT 1 or 2 at least as the razor comes from the coticule. If I use the Tomo slurry, either thick or thin, I rarely get better than HHT 0 no matter how many dilutions I try. If I dilute to water, wash hone and razor, then proceed with pure water, I can get HHT 3 or 4 after several dozen laps (40 to 60) but the shave is harsh and uncomfortable.

One other thing - when I received the hone, it had a nice, fairly shiny (satiny?) surface that gave blurry reflections and my first couple of honing jobs went without a hitch - producing smooth and sharp edges that were a joy to shave with. However, it was pretty obvious from the water and slurry that the surface wasn't flat. It was low in two corners and one side leaving a roughly 'S' shaped plateau in the middle. I lapped the surface flat under running water with a DMT325, then worked up through 2000 grit w/d and finishing off with the Tomo nagura (as suggested by a member here). It's certainly flat, but not satiny semi-shiny like it was when I got it and doesn't reflect anything - could this be the problem, or is it more likely my technique?

Many thanks in advance for any help and suggestions!

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A Razor Quality J nat does not have a learning curve or some ancient riddle that needs to be understood to unlock its true powers- despite all the misinformation. If you know how to hone, and can shave off a thuringians and coticules- it's not you. It's the stone. A razor quality stone leaves a wonderfully smooth edge when it's done making the razor shaving sharp. You shouldn't have to choose between HHT0 and Smooth comfortable edges. Newer stock shobu are not that good, and particularly the smaller ones- cutoffs, many are filled with reflective toxic inclusions- under bright light the stone will reflect as its turned.

Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

I was looking at the Shubudanis but I know like the child i am after that ill want to get a Nakayama.
What I really want is a jnat that gives a smooth keen edge that satisfies my curiosity so I don't feel the need to get any more.

Be careful, Maruichi was just a stone wholesaler/vendor who handled and stamped stones- through the grapevine, there's not a lot of information on him. Stones bearing the "Maruichi" stamp are often Nakayama mine, though some are ozuku and Narutaki etc. Of those- some are great stones. For chisels. Or fantastic for razors. And the Kamisori stamp isn't enough to go on. You have to shave test stones, and inspect them. A lot of stones (stamps) are forged, and mis stamped/labeled. Like Iwasaki Tamahagane razors (seen fakes of these, with tang stamped and all) or a rolex- there's a brand that can pay well to those able to make a stamp or counterfeit- they will. Anyways- some Maruichi are horrible quality, and many are very pure and fine. It's just a stamp done by a "Mr. X", has no bearing on how your shave will be, and they get lapped off right away.

Originally Posted by jnats

A Razor Quality J nat does not have a learning curve or some ancient riddle that needs to be understood to unlock its true powers- despite all the misinformation. If you know how to hone, and can shave off a thuringians and coticules- it's not you. It's the stone. A razor quality stone leaves a wonderfully smooth edge when it's done making the razor shaving sharp. You shouldn't have to choose between HHT0 and Smooth comfortable edges. Newer stock shobu are not that good, and particularly the smaller ones- cutoffs, many are filled with reflective toxic inclusions- under bright light the stone will reflect as its turned.

This hit the nail on the head - the surface is loaded with tiny dark specks <1mm across that sparkle when you turn it in the light. When I run my fingers over the surface I can feel them very slightly. Paper weight?

Originally Posted by sqzbxr

This hit the nail on the head - the surface is loaded with tiny dark specks <1mm across that sparkle when you turn it in the light. When I run my fingers over the surface I can feel them very slightly. Paper weight?

Yes. Paper weight. This is why I don't buy new stock Shoubudani. Even though the smaller cut offs can be had for ~8$ us or free as thank you gifts if purchasing some larger stones. They're very inclusion prone and a very hard inclusion filled stone, is a very useless stone. Not RAZOR QUALITY stones in my book.

Got it. Well, based on my stones of preference and experience, do you have a recommendation? I bought a couple of razors recently that were honed on JNATS (don't recall the details) and really like the shaves I'm getting from them.

Yeah. I'll loan you a truly razor quality jnat. There wont be any learning curve- superb edges right off the stone off the bat.

Many thanks - got the PM! Very generous of you indeed!

[sigh] Another week has to go by before mine is shipped.... I'm really looking forward to trying a Jnat out. I spent more than I should have, but Garret set me straight on what I needed and so I just dug deep and found the money.

I must admit I harassed Garret with all my emails, but he took it in stride and gently guided me in the correct direction.

Stone should ship next week, once it is ready + some nagura stones I just couldn't keep away from. This Jnat stuff is addictive, even though I have yet to try one. <grin>

For anyone contemplating purchasing a Jnat.... Select the correct dealer, one who will work with you and who stands behind what they sell. It's the only way to be sure that the $$$ you are spending, are being funnelled into what you really want!

Being in Canada, it can get expensive to ship stuff back and forth, so I took my time to make sure my wants were clear and that I would not have to endure the shipping back ordeal. I still have the option, but both seller and buyer have done everything they can to avoid it.

Jnats can get very costly, very quickly.... I thought perhaps I couldn't afford one of decent quality, but Garret assured me I could, and so I sprung for one. Once it arrives, I'll post pictures in the Jnat club.

Regards

Christian

I'm kind of surprised that Max at JNS would sell a stone that is loaded with toxic needles. Might be worth contacting him as well - perhaps he will replace the stone.

Oh, and good luck being satisfied with a single JNat! They are so unique it's almost like each has its own personality, lol. How could you not want more of something so pretty, lol:

i have little experience with a limited number of jnats, so no expert here...

anyway. i own one of these newer shobudanis (not from maksim). i does look nice, but has some inclusions that you feel when honing with little slurry. needless to say that it is worthless as a finisher, but it is a good and too expensive platform to test different tomo naguras. as jnats recommends, i'd stay away from these.

i also have one of those "cheap" maruichi stamped nakayamas "for beginners". it is soft, not very smooth, and rather slow. it is ok as a pre-finisher, but that's it... as a bonus it soaks water through a very narrow crack in the honing surface. this stone will split eventually, even though i sealed the sides.

but then i have a incredibly smooth, yet fast, old narutaki hone, completely uniform asagi colour, that produces an excellent, highly refined edge, that shaves like a dream. cost me an arm and a leg but it is worth every penny. i got this stone from alex gilmore. i received another stone from alex just recently, an oddly shaped asagi nakayama, not that expensive, with an everything but evenly coloured surface, certainly nothing you'd pick up in awe and buy without testing it. but this stone is a rocket, 1k striae vanish in a couple of minutes. the bevel is not polished after honing, but a razor honed on this stone shaves very, very smooth and close.

bottom line: there is nothing wrong with maksim's stones (i have one that i like very much), but i'd check other trusted sellers as well, dispite the import taxes and shipping fees. good stones are expensive, but as long as it does not have to be a perfectly shaped kiita, you might get an excellent nakayama or narutaki from alex or japanese-whetstones.com (have not bought from him, but he has some stones i'd really love to try...). and as usual, patience is your friend!

hans