Thread: My first jnat

Gentlemen.

I may be opening a can of worms here but I'm thinking of buying a jnat and need some help.

Let me start off by giving you my setup: Chosera 1k, superstone 5k and 10k finish on a Gok 20k.
I would consider myself an intermediate honer.

Now this has served me very well and I could easily carry on with this forever, but wheres the fun in that?
I intend to use synthetics up to the 10k then use a jnat as a finisher only. (Will get a escher at some point but im romanced with the idea of a jnat first.)

I'll more that likely get one from maxin at JNS as I always get stung with import duty from the states.

I don't mind spending a bit of money but equally dont need to get the best.

Any help is always appreciateed.

Mark

I would suggest one of Maksim's Shoubudani Type 100's to start with. You can get them for less than $100USD and they are great stones. It is what I started with myself. It is a great finisher.

I was looking at the Shubudanis but I know like the child i am after that ill want to get a Nakayama.
What I really want is a jnat that gives a smooth keen edge that satisfies my curiosity so I don't feel the need to get any more.

My advice is to communicate with Maksim the qualities you are looking for and let him make the choice..

Quite honestly, You do not really need a Nakayama. As was said earlier, the Shoubudani, or an Oozuko, are excellent choices.

Many newer stock shobu are inclusion prone. Narutaki is fantastic, located about a kilometer from Nakayama. Old ozuku are fantastic, the newer stock hard ozuku are scratchier and leave a more aggressive edge. Harsh is terms of jnats, though still much smoother and healthier than a Gok 20k. Narutaki supplied a lot of surgeons stones as did Nakayama- which of course was tier 1 for the emperors samurai, and later temple carpenters. There are great Ozaki, Okudo (kiita and asia layers mostly though suita and asagi layers there also lent well to some fantastic razor stones) Narutaki and some old stock ozuku are going to be the bulk makeup of what will give you the sharpest edges. Some Nakayama are sharper- but more importantly, Nakayama razor quality characteristics are much smoother and more refined edges- the best formed edges along with Narutaki, under a scope and by way of edge retention. Third would be honing directly on a hone made up of Asano mikawa Koma nagura. These are generalities, as each stone is different, but working with stones from all the best mines, these are high frequency observations.

Thanks garett
Ive read up a lot of info on different jnats and it can get quite intense.
A hard Nakayama Maruichi is what Ive got my eye on as you seem to get the best of both worlds: sharp/smooth.

From working with my collection of stones - I've currently got 12 JNats IIRC - as long as you get a razor quality stone (these all have pretty much the same abrasive particle size, from the scratches I've seen under high magnification) you will get good edges. You'll want to play around with slurry concentration and some razors will take a nice edge with a fairly thick slurry, some with a thin slurry, and some with dilution to straight water at the end.

Personally I feel that using a diamond plate for slurry generation is fine and it works good, but using tomo slurry does get me to a marginally smoother shave ATG. In my experience diamond plate slurry cuts VERY fast and can be a little coarser unless a good bit of pressure is used for a decent amount of time, tomo slurry is a bit slower and finer.

Generally harder stones give a bit shinier finish and a bit finer looking edge (this doesn't necessarily mean it will shave better) and softer stones a little more matted finish and a bit more variation in edge straightness (on a microscopic level, not gonna see it with your naked eye). Harder stones are usually, but not always, best finished with a thin slurry; softer stones are more likely to give a good edge with a straight water finish at the end.

Hi, I started with a shobu from JNS and I had fun with it ,even though I didn't even know what I was doing.
Then purchased my Nakayama from JNS . That stone is more important to me than ppl are
DMT slurries give me the best edges.
My advise is : spend more than you can afford.
Good Luck.

I would echo speaking with a vendor. Start by deciding exactly what you want from the stone. You have the 20k do do you want that refined and smoother etc. I am in the same boat and know from Coticules to ask the people who deal in them. They can steer you towards what you want without chasing stones to find what you are looking for. Depending on what you settle for will depend how much you need to spend. I also don't want to be seeking more so figured start out right at the top and hopefully leave nothing to be desired later. Good luck and let us know how it works out

I'm going to jump in with a question of my own, and since it involves a Shobudani, is directly relevant to the OP's original post:

I bought a secondhand Shobudani Asagi a few weeks ago from another (ahem) forum. According to the receipt, the original purchaser got it directly from Maksim at JNS last fall. It arrived in excellent condition in the original JNS box, well packed, and with a nagura that I believe is a Tomo.

Here's my issue: I can either get a smooth but not too sharp edge, or a sharp but uncomfortable edge from this stone. I've been honing razors for some years now, and except for bevel setters I have only used coticules and Thuringians for the last year or so. I am only using the Shobu as a finisher at this point, after going through bevel setter and coticule(s) as needed. When I switch to the Shobu, I'm usually getting HHT 1 or 2 at least as the razor comes from the coticule. If I use the Tomo slurry, either thick or thin, I rarely get better than HHT 0 no matter how many dilutions I try. If I dilute to water, wash hone and razor, then proceed with pure water, I can get HHT 3 or 4 after several dozen laps (40 to 60) but the shave is harsh and uncomfortable.

One other thing - when I received the hone, it had a nice, fairly shiny (satiny?) surface that gave blurry reflections and my first couple of honing jobs went without a hitch - producing smooth and sharp edges that were a joy to shave with. However, it was pretty obvious from the water and slurry that the surface wasn't flat. It was low in two corners and one side leaving a roughly 'S' shaped plateau in the middle. I lapped the surface flat under running water with a DMT325, then worked up through 2000 grit w/d and finishing off with the Tomo nagura (as suggested by a member here). It's certainly flat, but not satiny semi-shiny like it was when I got it and doesn't reflect anything - could this be the problem, or is it more likely my technique?

Many thanks in advance for any help and suggestions!