Thread: I Drew an Inch and gained more than a mile

Originally Posted by gugi

Here, I sketched it quickly:
Attachment 229390

So now I'm gonna split hairs

Although that diagram may be accurate for a freshly made warped blade. Most of the blades we work on are previously honed so the flats will contact more than just the edge, maybe an 1/8" inch or more at some point in the stroke.

I can see a lot of the work happens at the edge but I think it's more accurate to say "work near the edge" rather than the edge alone, as at point B.

Actually in most cases you have complex curvature, but when you get to a concave segment it is the edge, not 1/8" near the edge.
At one point may be 5 years ago I played a bit with it and derived a bunch of differential geometric equations/inequalities about it (it involves both the spine and the edge), but that's just for fun and there isn't anything sufficiently simple to be practical in that.

Well, that was an interesting read. All that back and forth was very interesting but lead to some confusion to me and possibly to some others also. In saying this, I was having some problems with a smiling wedge Wade and Butcher razor and also a custom san mai kamisori non folding straight razor. I am sorry that I cannot remember who in this forum mentioned that using the mentioned one inch edge edge of the hone may solve my problem in honing these razors. What can I say except that this method solved my problem with these razors. I did not draw a line on my hones but I did have to focus down on using only the one inch portion of my hones. I really would like to give credit to whoever it was but I'm sorry I can not remember. Whatever the reason it works, it just does!


Mike

Originally Posted by mglindo

Well, that was an interesting read. All that back and forth was very interesting but lead to some confusion to me and possibly to some others also. In saying this, I was having some problems with a smiling wedge Wade and Butcher razor and also a custom san mai kamisori non folding straight razor. I am sorry that I cannot remember who in this forum mentioned that using the mentioned one inch edge edge of the hone may solve my problem in honing these razors. What can I say except that this method solved my problem with these razors. I did not draw a line on my hones but I did have to focus down on using only the one inch portion of my hones. I really would like to give credit to whoever it was but I'm sorry I can not remember. Whatever the reason it works, it just does!

Mike

Mike, I'm the OP of this thread and posted it because this 1" line 'TIP' worked for me.

I was then basically looking from the sidelines as the pros and cons have been exchanged.

I must say that your post has been a breath of fresh air as this is why I started this thread!

It WORKED FOR ME!!!! And I'm Very Glad that it WORKED FOR YOU!

In the End--That's all that matters!

By the way it was Glen (GSSIXGUN/SENIOR MODERATOR) who graciously helped me with his knowledge about the 1" line. And I once again thank him! :

Originally Posted by gugi

Actually in most cases you have complex curvature, but when you get to a concave segment it is the edge, not 1/8" near the edge.

I can see that but I think a less confusing to way to explain the stroke for the average bear is that it requires the toe to be raised a few thousandths of an inch.

I dunno. If I may, one observation is the edge of the hone is like the edge of a very rough waterfall. Why approach it?

If I read a bunch of this, honing 'off' the side of a hone is an actual technique?

I have always tried to be wary of the edge of a hone, or strop. Seems appropriate?

I recently beat one side of an old razor into submission. I did it by creating hone wear here-there, and continued persistence to achieve what is correct in feel and results.
Dragging a blade off the side of a hone seems barbaric.

Have I missed something?
Not to be an expert or anything. Genuinely curious

Originally Posted by sharptonn

I dunno. If I may, one observation is the edge of the hone is like the edge of a very rough waterfall. Why approach it?

If your razor has a warp there is simply no way to hone it without doing it on the edge of the hone. That's all there is to it.

If the whole razor edge is convex you are still going to hone one point of the razor at a time and that point can be anywhere on the hone depending on how exactly you hold the razor. At the end of the day that contact point has to go over the whole razor edge, which can be achieved by all kinds of strokes.
So, honing smiling blades is pretty straightforward.

Warped ones, however, have one convex side which is just like any smiling blade - not a big challenge, but the opposite side is concave and that's getting honed only on the edge of the hone.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I can see that but I think a less confusing to way to explain the stroke for the average bear is that it requires the toe to be raised a few thousandths of an inch.

Well, it's not really necessary, you can still rest point A on the hone (and for great edge you probably have to in order to lower the pressure at the contact point B' where the honing happens), but yes, for the average person it well may be an easier direction that they can simply follow.

Originally Posted by gugi

If your razor has a warp there is simply no way to hone it without doing it on the edge of the hone. That's all there is to it.

If the whole razor edge is convex you are still going to hone one point of the razor at a time and that point can be anywhere on the hone depending on how exactly you hold the razor. At the end of the day that contact point has to go over the whole razor edge, which can be achieved by all kinds of strokes.
So, honing smiling blades is pretty straightforward.

Warped ones, however, have one convex side which is just like any smiling blade - not a big challenge, but the opposite side is concave and that's getting honed only on the edge of the hone.




Well, it's not really necessary, you can still rest point A on the hone (and for great edge you probably have to in order to lower the pressure at the contact point B' where the honing happens), but yes, for the average person it well may be an easier direction that they can simply follow.

That's all there is to it!

Originally Posted by cudarunner

It WORKED FOR ME!!!! And I'm Very Glad that it WORKED FOR YOU!

In the End--That's all that matters!

That depends on what one's goal is.

When I simply want my razor honed I send it to Lynn - there is nothing better than this.

If I am stumped at why a razor won't get sharp and have no idea what to do I may look for any 'simple recipe' I can just follow and hopefully get it done.

If I am interested in becoming as good as Lynn and not be just a technician who follows a recipe, but can deal with any razor that comes my way, then what I want is to understand the process and the reasons for the various techniques. The hope is that when I get a challenging razor I will be able to devise a combination of different techniques or make a new one that addresses the unique set of problems of that particular razor.

Again, it all depends on one's objectives

Originally Posted by gugi

That depends on what one's goal is.

When I simply want my razor honed I send it to Lynn - there is nothing better than this.

If I am stumped at why a razor won't get sharp and have no idea what to do I may look for any 'simple recipe' I can just follow and hopefully get it done.

If I am interested in becoming as good as Lynn and not be just a technician who follows a recipe, but can deal with any razor that comes my way, then what I want is to understand the process and the reasons for the various techniques. The hope is that when I get a challenging razor I will be able to devise a combination of different techniques or make a new one that addresses the unique set of problems of that particular razor.

Again, it all depends on one's objectives

Indeed. Out in the real world, some crazy razors are to be honed!