Thread: Chinese Waterstone 12k

Hi chaps,
well I have taken the plunge and bought a stone. This may turn out badly but I thought what the heck and did it anyway. Surfing my new favourite online merchant (TIE), I settled upon a natural stone described as akin to a 12k. Following the clear and concise instructions provided by SRP I lapped my new acquisition on its arrival and took off any edges using a 320 grit wet-dry paper. I have the one razor only as of now, a Revisor 5/8 ( I am actually bidding on a PUMA 6/8 on a popular online auction site, it looks tidy but as always it's pot luck), so I was determined to just start by getting the feel of the stone. I used electric tape to protect the back of the razor and, after wetting the stone, performed twenty passes on each side using the weight of the blade only. Afterward I gave it a stropping and then shaved with it. I want to say it was better but I know it's probably not so. Until I send something to an expert Honer I am just shooting in the dark, but it is something I'm determined to become accomplished at. Does anyone have any experience with Chinese stones and if so what do you think?

I do not have one but they are reportedly very, very hard, like Arkansas hard, and as a result very slow. Most folks mention using 100-200 strokes to finish.

Cheers, Steve

There are folks with a lot of experience using the infamous Chinese Hones. i am not one of them but i can tell you what has been said. These hones are not all created equal some are excellent finishers and some not so much, which one do you have? Well you will have to play some more before coming to a conclusion. Another quality these hones seem to have is that all say they are slow very slow. Little cutting power but can be good polishers if again you have a good one. The fact that you just did 20 laps on that razor of yours probably wouldn't make a dent on it even if all was well with the hone and the razor. Other than that folks claim that they are quite easy to use but don't give much in the way of feedback. I would try at least a hundred strokes then test from there. Of course this advise is loosely based that your blade just needs some touch up and not a complete re hone. For that its useless. Be patient others will chime in with recommendations. There is a member named Steel that likes these stones maybe ask him what he thinks.

I have one and it does make for a good finisher. My advice - look into how people prep their Arkansas hones. In my humble opinion, these need more than just being flattened with 320 grit paper before you can get the most out of them. I would advise polishing it up to 1 or even 2K, then burnishing with a chisel or kitchen knife - about 100 passes with no pressure. This will optimize the level of polish you can put on your blade.

After that, like an Arkansas hone there isn't much refreshing/lapping to be done. Unless you like prepping the surface of your hone. Mine came with a rubbing stone made of the same material. I use that to build a slurry and to try and keep the hone from dishing too much by scrubbing over the areas my razor hasn't touched.

Slurry can be your best friend with this hone. After the 8k I build a medium slurry and do some passes, dilute it to a light slurry and do a similar amount of passes, then finish with 75 to 100 strokes on pure water after washing away the slurry with running water. This is just an average. Usually I do passes in groups of 20-25, I stop when the edge stops improving and move to the next phase.

IF your blade is more or less shave ready, after you've prepped the stone I would give it 50 no pressure passes or so. That will be enough to give you an idea if your stone is good for finishing or not.

Tom,,, make sure you have read through these threads;

Chinese Guangxi Hones - Straight Razor Place Library

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...uestion-s.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...nese-hone.html

I have one as well. Ebay special. lapped it and polished it to 1K.
Test, test,test. 25 laps test,25 more test.
Slurry and pressure changes all parameters.
My 12K doesnt autoslurry. Water and light pressure seemed to work for me.
50 plus laps seems to be a common with this type of hone.

Yup, as said there is a lot written on these stone and they do run the gamut on performance. Burnishing can improve performance.

But, what is the condition of the razor? If your stone is a finisher, it will just finish, meaning the bevels and edge must be in good condition, flat bevels, at the proper angle and meeting from heel to toe.

Some Sharpie ink will tell you, if you are honing to the edge. If you are and the bevel and edge are in good shape, begin with 100 laps.

Do read the recommended C12k posts, (by the way few are 12k or even close, though some can finish). Also read the first 3 post in the honing forum.

I would say yes they are. I use combo stones both Norton 4/8k and Naniwa 3/8k good economical choice for getting into honing. Both those stones have quite a range. Bevel can be set and you can get a shaveable edge from both.

Only thing you want to keep in mind with combination stones is there is slightly greater risk for grit contamination. It could be quite frutstrating if somehow grit from the lower rated side got embedded in the finer side during lapping or something of the like. Need to be very careful to thoroughly wash each side before use, and before switching sides. It's rare, but possible.

But combination hones are fine. In fact, if you're just learning and only intend to keep a small cache of razors in order they're perfect for the purpose.

I've had really good luck with all my naturals. My C12K is a hard one - no auto slurrying. I still wouldn't call it 12K, but it IS an improvement over a Norton 8K synthetic. As for my Welsh slates, the purple and black are finer than a Norton 8K, the Dragon's tongue is same ball park. Hopefully that doesn't change as I wear through them, but naturals are as others have stated - not uniform, and something of an unknown quantity until you get them in hand and try them out to see where they sit. When you find a good one they make excellent finishers though, I think there's a reason by and large more people on the site finish with some form of natural hone over a synthetic.

Not knocking synthetics mind you, just stating an observation. There's a reason I replaced the Norton combination hones I wore out. I love my naturals, but I would echo Euclid's advice to start with synthetics because it does eliminate the possibility that you got a bum stone when the time comes that you'll need to diagnose what's going wrong with your honing efforts.

There are only a handful of synthetic stones that work well with razors. Most stones are made for tools and knives.

Inexpensive stones have a tendency to release grit easily or not at all and cause problems for new honers.

How many stones you need depend on what you plan to do, maintain a single razor or two, or restore vintage razors.

Set yourself up for success and buy the best stones you can afford with proven results. The Suehiro stones tend to release grit easily and some are too small for honing razors, 1.5 in x 5 inches.

The Norton, Naniwa and King combo stones are proven performers.