Thread: Chinese Waterstone 12k

Hi chaps,
well I have taken the plunge and bought a stone. This may turn out badly but I thought what the heck and did it anyway. Surfing my new favourite online merchant (TIE), I settled upon a natural stone described as akin to a 12k. Following the clear and concise instructions provided by SRP I lapped my new acquisition on its arrival and took off any edges using a 320 grit wet-dry paper. I have the one razor only as of now, a Revisor 5/8 ( I am actually bidding on a PUMA 6/8 on a popular online auction site, it looks tidy but as always it's pot luck), so I was determined to just start by getting the feel of the stone. I used electric tape to protect the back of the razor and, after wetting the stone, performed twenty passes on each side using the weight of the blade only. Afterward I gave it a stropping and then shaved with it. I want to say it was better but I know it's probably not so. Until I send something to an expert Honer I am just shooting in the dark, but it is something I'm determined to become accomplished at. Does anyone have any experience with Chinese stones and if so what do you think?

I do not have one but they are reportedly very, very hard, like Arkansas hard, and as a result very slow. Most folks mention using 100-200 strokes to finish.

Cheers, Steve

There are folks with a lot of experience using the infamous Chinese Hones. i am not one of them but i can tell you what has been said. These hones are not all created equal some are excellent finishers and some not so much, which one do you have? Well you will have to play some more before coming to a conclusion. Another quality these hones seem to have is that all say they are slow very slow. Little cutting power but can be good polishers if again you have a good one. The fact that you just did 20 laps on that razor of yours probably wouldn't make a dent on it even if all was well with the hone and the razor. Other than that folks claim that they are quite easy to use but don't give much in the way of feedback. I would try at least a hundred strokes then test from there. Of course this advise is loosely based that your blade just needs some touch up and not a complete re hone. For that its useless. Be patient others will chime in with recommendations. There is a member named Steel that likes these stones maybe ask him what he thinks.

I have one and it does make for a good finisher. My advice - look into how people prep their Arkansas hones. In my humble opinion, these need more than just being flattened with 320 grit paper before you can get the most out of them. I would advise polishing it up to 1 or even 2K, then burnishing with a chisel or kitchen knife - about 100 passes with no pressure. This will optimize the level of polish you can put on your blade.

After that, like an Arkansas hone there isn't much refreshing/lapping to be done. Unless you like prepping the surface of your hone. Mine came with a rubbing stone made of the same material. I use that to build a slurry and to try and keep the hone from dishing too much by scrubbing over the areas my razor hasn't touched.

Slurry can be your best friend with this hone. After the 8k I build a medium slurry and do some passes, dilute it to a light slurry and do a similar amount of passes, then finish with 75 to 100 strokes on pure water after washing away the slurry with running water. This is just an average. Usually I do passes in groups of 20-25, I stop when the edge stops improving and move to the next phase.

IF your blade is more or less shave ready, after you've prepped the stone I would give it 50 no pressure passes or so. That will be enough to give you an idea if your stone is good for finishing or not.

Tom,,, make sure you have read through these threads;

Chinese Guangxi Hones - Straight Razor Place Library

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...uestion-s.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...nese-hone.html

I have one as well. Ebay special. lapped it and polished it to 1K.
Test, test,test. 25 laps test,25 more test.
Slurry and pressure changes all parameters.
My 12K doesnt autoslurry. Water and light pressure seemed to work for me.
50 plus laps seems to be a common with this type of hone.

Yup, as said there is a lot written on these stone and they do run the gamut on performance. Burnishing can improve performance.

But, what is the condition of the razor? If your stone is a finisher, it will just finish, meaning the bevels and edge must be in good condition, flat bevels, at the proper angle and meeting from heel to toe.

Some Sharpie ink will tell you, if you are honing to the edge. If you are and the bevel and edge are in good shape, begin with 100 laps.

Do read the recommended C12k posts, (by the way few are 12k or even close, though some can finish). Also read the first 3 post in the honing forum.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Yup, as said there is a lot written on these stone and they do run the gamut on performance. Burnishing can improve performance.

But, what is the condition of the razor? If your stone is a finisher, it will just finish, meaning the bevels and edge must be in good condition, flat bevels, at the proper angle and meeting from heel to toe.

Some Sharpie ink will tell you, if you are honing to the edge. If you are and the bevel and edge are in good shape, begin with 100 laps.

Do read the recommended C12k posts, (by the way few are 12k or even close, though some can finish). Also read the first 3 post in the honing forum.

Lots of good advice from SRP members as always so my thanks to you all. My razor is in decent enough shaving form I believe; I have been using it almost daily for about two months now (it's a Revisor and came shave ready). I have always wanted to be able to hone since I decided that go down this path, and felt getting a very gentle stone to begin with was the sensible option. I am looking at a PUMA Friseur Freund 6/8 and a 1930's Thomas Turner at present, neither of which are pitched as 'shave ready'. For these razors would I be correct in assuming a coarser grit is necessary, something like the 8k Welsh Dragons Tongue from Inigo Jones perhaps?

I've had five of them. I don't know why. Whether or not they're good depends on two things:
1) you get an appropriately fine one
2) it doesn't autoslurry

When they autoslurry, they're like any other slate - fairly fast and coarse

When they don't, they're slow burnishers (but good at it and for a good price).

We could all come up with strategies for getting only the good ones, and I have a theory, but having only five stones in the past - no clue if it's worth anything.

If you end up with a soft stone, you can always cut it into nagura (something you want a soft stone for, anyway).

Yes, if it is not advertised Shave Ready by a reputable seller, it will not be shave ready.

And if it is a vintage razor, it will most probably need a full 1k bevel set and run through 4, 8 & 12k stones.

The “Welch Stones” are much the same as the Chinese Stones and vary wildly and not near the estimated grit, even more so than for the Welch Stones.

The problem is any natural stones cannot be grit rated, they are natural rocks and no one knows what each one contains or the grit/grits. You can possibly grit match a specific stone, but may change from side to side.

If you want to learn to hone buy a set of quality synthetic stones 1, 4, 8 & 12K and find a local mentor. If you continue with Natural stones, it will be hit and miss on the stones grits, abilities and make the honing process much more difficult and frustrating for you.