Thread: What is a PHIG?

“Why can't someone determent the grit of a natural stone or guess at it ? Who determent the grit of a man made stone ?”

The size of the grit used to make it.

Natural stones are made by nature, from thousands of years of silt washing down a river. There is no, no quality control.

Most naturals vary from side to side, let alone from one stone to another.

Just look at coticules, or Jnats, and the fact that no-one, owns or has owned just one… always looking for a better/finer one.

I honestly have a reason for asking that question. I went and got some of my stones out to feel of while reading this thread. I am holding a Shapton 16K and two Arkies a black and trans . My Arkies are so much smoother to the touch it is unreal. In fact if I turn the Shapon over to the other side that has a blue/ green glass that you can read 0.92 through the Arkies are finer than that glass. Which was confusing to me because if this shapton is 16k I would have guess the two Arkies to be 50k easy.

Originally Posted by AlienEdge

I honestly have a reason for asking that question. I went and got some of my stones out to feel of while reading this thread. I am holding a Shapton 16K and two Arkies a black and trans . My Arkies are so much smoother to the touch it is unreal. In fact if I turn the Shapon over to the other side that has a blue/ green glass that you can read 0.92 through the Arkies are finer than that glass. Which was confusing to me because if this shapton is 16k I would have guess the two Arkies to be 50k easy.

It really just does not work that way. You cannot identify the grit equivalence of a hone by touch. I have tried out many hones that FEEL glassy smooth yet still will chew up an edge.

I think once you've progressed to Jnats and coticules its full blown HAD kicking in, thus you can't have just 1. Got to try all that you can. So there's another factor in play there, on top of the variance between one natural and the next.

Originally Posted by Utopian

It really just does not work that way. You cannot identify the grit equivalence of a hone by touch. I have tried out many hones that FEEL glassy smooth yet still will chew up an edge.

Also this. You can't feel differences on this fine a scale. The particulate matter is literally too small beyond probably 8k.

Better yet

Take three or four 8k Synthetics and use test blocks to check the Stria and you soon realize that the numbers stamped on Synthetic Hones only have real meaning between Hones of the same Brand and Series...


ie: A 8k Shapton GS is a finer Hone then a 4k Shapton GS

but

It may or may not be a finer grit then a 5k Naniwa SS,, or better yet compare a Naniwa SS 5k to the Naniwa 5k Professional and learn that the Binder and Type of grit can effect the Stria..

Now relate that to the millions of combinations that Mother Nature can use on her stones and you can understand the issue of assigning grit numbers to them

Originally Posted by Utopian

It really just does not work that way. You cannot identify the grit equivalence of a hone by touch. I have tried out many hones that FEEL glassy smooth yet still will chew up an edge.

I understand you can't do it that way I'm not expert on figuring out the grit size. I use my finger and my tongue (after washing the stone) That is why I asked. I can't really blame the Chinese guys for guessing at the grit.

So, what is it that you are feeling? And really, you can tell grit size with your fingers, down to 50K, a quarter of a micron?

On some stones you can grit rate/compare, a particular stone face. But that does not mean that all stones of that brand or type are the same, in fact, they can’t be. And yours may change from side to side.

It is not just about the grit size, binder, grit type, shape or combination of all the above work to deliver a given performance.

Even with synthetic stones of the same grit size and type, only a handful, work well with razors, mostly because of the binder.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

So, what is it that you are feeling? And really, you can tell grit size with your fingers, down to 50K, a quarter of a micron?

On some stones you can grit rate/compare, a particular stone face. But that does not mean that all stones of that brand or type are the same, in fact, they can’t be. And yours may change from side to side.

It is not just about the grit size, binder, grit type, shape or combination of all the above work to deliver a given performance.

Even with synthetic stones of the same grit size and type, only a handful, work well with razors, mostly because of the binder.

What am I feeling is something as smooth as glass, and I can see my re flexion in the stone. Also I have not found any thing that doesn't work . I probably have 40 barber hones, and many arkies. Maybe I have just been lucky every time .

The reason that "they all work" is because you can get a perfectly good shave from a hone in the equivalent range of 8k or higher.