Thread: Washita or Soft Arkansas for bevel setting

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Never said it wasn't. Still I don't recall cleaning up any "messes."

My point is that the chosera leaves a very mellow scratch pattern. I don't see any advantage to using an ark other than to say you did it. I set a bevel on a gold dollar with botan slurry on an ikarashi(natural bevel setter). Took me half hour. I did it once. I had a bevel. Which wasn't better than the one I get on a chosera1 k. Some honing mediums like diamond plates can leave deep scratches that take time to remove. That is the mess I was talking about.

...but let me put that a different way because I'm not rebutting anything really and not looking for an argument. I have heard a couple of people say they wouldn't use a soft ark on their razors. I'm curious why that is because (as a lark or adventure perhaps it's through ignorance) I have been working on a method using an ark progression. I use the soft ark for bevel set first an I have ha no issues. In fact it is producing nice straight clean bevels that I can shave on. I'm just wondering what the reason is that they seem to be verboten.

Okay, you replied before I finished mine. That makes sense and I get it. There are things that I do in my trade just to stay sharp. My trade is a very, very, very old trade. There have been locks around for literally thousands of years but they are not the same today as they were even 50 years ago when I first started in the business. Actually I started apprenticing over 40 years ago but my father was a locksmith so I have literally have been in and around this business my whole life but anyway there are some methods that we used a long long time ago which we still use today. Some of them have gone by the wayside. I'm the only one in town who will work on those century old plus mortise locks. It's not something that I really make that much money on but that's something that I do for myself more than for the customer. I know that the ark progression with bevel set is akin to that. My question though about the soft ark still stands as to why people won't touch their razor to it.
Even though in my business there are some ways that are easier and faster than the old ways, some of the old ways are still better. A lot of the craftsmanship has gone out of this trade which is a shame because people just don't seem to take the pride in it that they used to. I think that's true of a lot of businesses.

I find some over lap between some soft arks and Washita's on the lower end, but it is much harder to find a fast soft ark. Most of the softs are to hard especially if I have a Washita handy.

Yeah I get that too. But in my defense these are all heirloom stones that belong to my dad. So in some ways I'm doing it just for sentimental reasons. I will say this about my dad though, he didn't fool around when it came to tools. He bought good tools and I've had pretty good luck with these stones so far if that means anything.
Who knows, A year from now or even soon er I may say I don't know why in the hell I was doing that but it's been a fun adventure thus far.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

...but let me put that a different way because I'm not rebutting anything really and not looking for an argument. I have heard a couple of people say they wouldn't use a soft ark on their razors. I'm curious why that is because (as a lark or adventure perhaps it's through ignorance) I have been working on a method using an ark progression. I use the soft ark for bevel set first an I have ha no issues. In fact it is producing nice straight clean bevels that I can shave on. I'm just wondering what the reason is that they seem to be verboten.

Hi Paul,

I have just had a shave with a full Ark progression and I was completely shocked how close and comfortable my shave was, I even felt a difference to my synths.

I received some good suggestions and advice before I started my Ark adventure but this is what I settled on largely because it was I had to hand.

I bought a Washita no1 as you know.

I lapped both sides, one side I lapped to 400 and then took it back to 220 and left it alone. The other side I lapped to 1200 and burnished it.

My Translucent was lapped because it was suggested that Dan’s may feel flat but draw a grid and lap it, it was not as flat as I thought it was.

I lapped one side to 600 and left alone and the other to 1200 and I’m still burnishing it because it takes ages and I’m about half way there.

I use glycerin, largely because it drips on my trousers when I am honing in front of YouTube and it’s water soluble so I can get them clean again in the washing machine.

I start on the course side of the Washita to set the bevel, I don’t find it takes me any cleverness or special naturals technique at this point. I just give it 500 or so assorted but mostly x stroke laps starting with pressure then lightening up for the 4th hundred and no pressure for the last 100. That will easily shave arm or in my case stomach hair,

I then turn it over and do the same on the fine side.

I go to the course side of my Trans and do the same and by now I can tree top some hair.

I go to the fine side and do it again except an extra 100 no pressure.

I give it 20 on fabric and 100 on leather.

I know I have no experience to speak of and I know my edges will get better with time, I would like that because my edges seem pretty damn good to me, just by going at it for hours and hours. Lucky I like playing with my razors eh?

My point at last is that I only use 2 stones. I was advised not to get a soft ark because it was harder to set a bevel on one and it could easily take my edge backward from the washita.

To be completely honest Paul, I wouldn’t know a soft or hard if they bit me on the bum (Unless it was Witten on the box of course).

Excellent Steve! I'm glad to hear that's working out for you. I have a block mounted stone that I think might be a washita. Honestly I'm really not sure. I only know what the ones people have told me are for sure. According to Desrtrat that 1-in by 4-in stone I have been raving about is a hard ark so it's similar to your trans. If you hold it up against a light bulb you can see the glow through it But it's not exactly translucent.
I know you've put a lot of time and energy into that and I'm glad it's paying off for you. You see what I mean though about how crisp and yet smooth at the same time those edges are. If you look at the bevel, the edge is so straight and no chips like I get from my synthetics. And it has that frosty look to it which looks like it was sandblasted almost. At least that's kind of how it looked to me.
Again glad it's working out for you and more than anything I'm glad you're having fun with it.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Yeah I get that too. But in my defense these are all heirloom stones that belong to my dad. So in some ways I'm doing it just for sentimental reasons. I will say this about my dad though, he didn't fool around when it came to tools. He bought good tools and I've had pretty good luck with these stones so far if that means anything.
Who knows, A year from now or even soon er I may say I don't know why in the hell I was doing that but it's been a fun adventure thus far.

No need for a defense, we all choose our own paths for different reasons. The easiest path may not be the most rewarding for you, me or others, we are shaving with straight razors after all. Probably plenty of dinosaurs around here....

Late to the party.
I'm a big fan of arkies and use them for own razors and tools, and for other people if they request it. Start with a soft for the bevel set and run through the stones up through the surgical black arkie. I love the feel of the edges and I like the feedback from the arkies as I hone.
But,
Arkies are slower than synthetics, and in my experience, slower than jnats and coticules. If you are in a hurry or in a time is money situation, then natural stones are not the best choice. So that is a reason not to use them.
Also, being a natural stone, all stones are not created equally. I have run into softs and washitas that I would not use on a thin edge because the stone was too coarse. They would be fine for a wedge razor, but would have destroyed a full hollow. I have also run into softs that I didn't think were soft enough. It's just the nature of natural stones.

If you are actively looking for soft arkies at yard sales, etc. carry a thin blade pocket knife with you and run that blade over the stone. Listen to the sound and feel the vibration in the blade to see if it is the right stone for you. If it is a new stone, remember to burnish it with a steel rod or screwdriver before you use a razor on it.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Excellent Steve! I'm glad to hear that's working out for you. I have a block mounted stone that I think might be a washita. Honestly I'm really not sure. I only know what the ones people have told me are for sure. According to Desrtrat that 1-in by 4-in stone I have been raving about is a hard ark so it's similar to your trans. If you hold it up against a light bulb you can see the glow through it But it's not exactly translucent.
I know you've put a lot of time and energy into that and I'm glad it's paying off for you. You see what I mean though about how crisp and yet smooth at the same time those edges are. If you look at the bevel, the edge is so straight and no chips like I get from my synthetics. And it has that frosty look to it which looks like it was sandblasted almost. At least that's kind of how it looked to me.
Again glad it's working out for you and more than anything I'm glad you're having fun with it.

I find that the frosty edge goes shinier after a good stropping