Thread: DMT-Dia-Flat Lapping Plate

I have a few thought. Only the did-flat are lapping plates, the others are usually bench hones. The difference is not much. However most people do not truly lap a hone very often. Good old fashioned pencil grid double lap is usually only done on new hones or is you star having issues, Most of the time most of us are simply maintaining our hones and keeping them clean. Higher grits leave a much nicer and finer honing surface for finish and mid range hones. I lap with my 120 screen did-flat, relax with my 325 screen on almost everything and then simply dress the surface with either a 600 or 1200 screen bench hone, the finer the hone the finer the finish. The 120 makes fast work of flattening pretty much everything. Carbide grit on granite is suppose to be fast and easy to progress, but I have no experience with it. Lapping plates and diamond bench hones often get plugged up with grit, even if you lap under water or under running water. An easy solution for that is Comet or soft scrub and a nice stiff nail brush and they get back to almost new with a little effort.

My personal opinion is that for any of the man made water stones, it makes no nevermind what grit the lapping plate is. Naniwa, Shapton, Norton, King etc. all will be fine right off a 120G diamond plate. For Natural finishers, such as Jnats, Arkansas, the Zulu Grey, not to mention the Chinese PHIG (I'll toss in those small barbers hones here too), a finer grit diamond hone might be of value. As for the infamous Coticule, I'm now firmly in the belief of the use of a diamond plate ONCE to flatten it, then use a (made from coticule) slurry stone for raising a slurry or cleaning it afterwards. I feel that those sharp diamond tips might shatter/damage any protruding garnets and thus ruin the smoothness of the hone.

Our terminology is getting a bit muddy.... We speak of "slurry" honing, but the correct term is "lapping". A slurry is simply abrasive grit in a liquid medium such as water, on top of a lapping surface. It really gets confusing when we talk about "lapping" a stone flat on a diamond plate as the diamond grit is firmly embedded into the chrome/nickel coating on the plate, thus we are actually "grinding" the stone/hone flat on the diamond plate. If we use a glass plate with loose lapping powder and water to lapp our stones, we are indeed "lapping and not "grinding". It all gets very confusing until we all understand what we are trying to say.

Bottom line, 120G is not a problem with Norton and Naniwa hones. Yes, you will see scratch marks on the hone, but it does NOT MATTER. On the other hand, with some natural hones, we're trying to flatten the tops of the grains inside the hone to make it cut smoother... these hones, and these alone, require a smoother diamond plate. And with that, I would suggest that the lions share of the flattening should be done on the 120G plate.... leave the 325G or 400G or 1200G for the finish only, on natural hones (again, this does not include the Coticule hones, which are a very unique beast).

In the "olden days" when there was not as wide a choice, the 325 Diamond plate was the standard we all used. Now we have oversize plates, fine plates, Shapton glass diamond plates and the list goes on. The DMT 325G hone is still a fine choice, the new 120G lapping plate with it's huge size is also a great choice! A flat surface with wet/dry silicon carbide paper is also a good choice. Run whatcha brung..... Don't worry about all the stuff you DON'T have... My dad, who as a barber and had a shop in the "old Winnipeg" shaved many a gent each and every day of his career as a barber, he NEVER had access to all the things things we have today, and he did just fine with what he had or could make on his own.

Unless you stick strictly with a Feather replaceable blade straight, you will NOT be able to buy your your way to the best straight shave ever, you can only practice using what you have, to get there....


Regards

Kaptain "I've spent more than 15 years learning that last sentence....." Zero

You can lap a lot of stones with a $3 granite floor tile from Home Depot/Lowes and $7 worth of SiC grit from got grit dot com.

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

As for the infamous Coticule, I'm now firmly in the belief of the use of a diamond plate ONCE to flatten it, then use a (made from coticule) slurry stone for raising a slurry or cleaning it afterwards. I feel that those sharp diamond tips might shatter/damage any protruding garnets and thus ruin the smoothness of the hone.

Really glad to read the above. I had never thought of it that way and it is an interesting concept that I'll have to experiment with. Might explain problems I've had with a few vintage cotis over the years.

As for the big Dia-Sharp ......... before they came out with that they had come out with the 8x3 XX 120 grit. I bought one and it is an aggressive beast. It does leave deeper scratches than the 325s but it will do a good job of getting the lion's share of the work done if you want to follow up with a finer plate.

One of the most skilled honers I know swore by the Norton lapping plates when they were a very rough surface years ago. He was quite disturbed when they began producing a smoother lapping plate and was looking high and low for guys who would sell their older rough ones.

Years ago member hi_bud_gl trashed a DMT 1200 by using it to lap waterstones. He sent it into Dia-Sharp and they wouldn't honor the warranty because he had abused it by using it in that manner. You can read the details here .

So they posted on their site, at that time, that no plate above 325 should be used for lapping waterstones, and the 325 should only be used to lap under running water. IIRC that was when the 8x3 XX 120 made it's appearance. The Dia-Flat came somewhat later IIRC.

So I was reluctant to buy the much more expensive Atoma 1200 but had heard so much positive feedback about it that I bit the bullet and went for it. A different configuration than the DMTs and the thing is a super lapping plate. I just hope it lasts, and that is why I still start off with the D8C 325 and finish with the Atoma.

Anyway, that new DMT plate you've got should be a good investment in time saving and wear and tear on the elbow.

Jimmy,

I too use a 400 and 1200 Atoma, though I still have my DMT 325 and 1200 grit hones as well. They all work well, but I'll let my coarser stones do the grunt work, and just lightly finish with the 1200. I think the 1200 Atoma will last longer with those little nubs of diamonds, but even Atoma won't stand behind it if you use it for flattening hones. I also do not use a 1200 diamond plate on regular waterstones, like the Naniwa SS or Shapton Glass hones... the 325/400 is plenty fine for those.

As you point out... the extra elbow room on the big DMT, will be a nice feature for the original poster.

Regards

Christian

Sorry, but I think the Dia-Flat is unnecessary overkill for the SuperStones. The Dia-Flat is great for lapping any hones, but mainly in the hogging off part of the process. The main thing needed for the SuperStones is frequent gentle refreshing of the surface, and this can be done just fine with a DMT 325.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Sorry, but I think the Dia-Flat is unnecessary overkill for the SuperStones. The Dia-Flat is great for lapping any hones, but mainly in the hogging off part of the process. The main thing needed for the SuperStones is frequent gentle refreshing of the surface, and this can be done just fine with a DMT 325.

Indeed, you are correct... the 120 grit plate IS overkill, but other than that, it's fine... a bit wasteful of the SS hones, but fine, none the less. As H has already purchased the DMT, there's no *need* for him to purchase the 325 right away.... down the road, sure.....

Thanks for all the input gents!

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

My personal opinion is that for any of the man made water stones, it makes no nevermind what grit the lapping plate is. Naniwa, Shapton, Norton, King etc. all will be fine right off a 120G diamond plate. For Natural finishers, such as Jnats, Arkansas, the Zulu Grey, not to mention the Chinese PHIG (I'll toss in those small barbers hones here too), a finer grit diamond hone might be of value. As for the infamous Coticule, I'm now firmly in the belief of the use of a diamond plate ONCE to flatten it, then use a (made from coticule) slurry stone for raising a slurry or cleaning it afterwards. I feel that those sharp diamond tips might shatter/damage any protruding garnets and thus ruin the smoothness of the hone.

Our terminology is getting a bit muddy.... We speak of "slurry" honing, but the correct term is "lapping". A slurry is simply abrasive grit in a liquid medium such as water, on top of a lapping surface. It really gets confusing when we talk about "lapping" a stone flat on a diamond plate as the diamond grit is firmly embedded into the chrome/nickel coating on the plate, thus we are actually "grinding" the stone/hone flat on the diamond plate. If we use a glass plate with loose lapping powder and water to lapp our stones, we are indeed "lapping and not "grinding". It all gets very confusing until we all understand what we are trying to say.

Bottom line, 120G is not a problem with Norton and Naniwa hones. Yes, you will see scratch marks on the hone, but it does NOT MATTER. On the other hand, with some natural hones, we're trying to flatten the tops of the grains inside the hone to make it cut smoother... these hones, and these alone, require a smoother diamond plate. And with that, I would suggest that the lions share of the flattening should be done on the 120G plate.... leave the 325G or 400G or 1200G for the finish only, on natural hones (again, this does not include the Coticule hones, which are a very unique beast).

In the "olden days" when there was not as wide a choice, the 325 Diamond plate was the standard we all used. Now we have oversize plates, fine plates, Shapton glass diamond plates and the list goes on. The DMT 325G hone is still a fine choice, the new 120G lapping plate with it's huge size is also a great choice! A flat surface with wet/dry silicon carbide paper is also a good choice. Run whatcha brung..... Don't worry about all the stuff you DON'T have... My dad, who as a barber and had a shop in the "old Winnipeg" shaved many a gent each and every day of his career as a barber, he NEVER had access to all the things things we have today, and he did just fine with what he had or could make on his own.

Unless you stick strictly with a Feather replaceable blade straight, you will NOT be able to buy your your way to the best straight shave ever, you can only practice using what you have, to get there....


Regards

Kaptain "I've spent more than 15 years learning that last sentence....." Zero

+1 to the last sentence, learn to use what you got. It will make your shaves better. Tc

While I don’t have that particular plate, I do have a couple 140 grit plates and I use them a lot, but I lap a lot of stones.

A low grit plate will get a stone flat quick, but as said, you do need a higher grit plate for reviving a stone. I have many diamond plates in many grits from a variety of makers. They all work.

Synthetic stones like the Super Stones, do load up quickly and develop a kind of “skin” from the drying and rewetting process. You will see it as a discoloration. The skin and the loading up, affects the cutting ability and I suspect some chipping on high grits, so I remove it with a quick lap on a high grit plate.

You can remove the skin or the load up, with a green Scotch Brite sponge, but I use a 400/1k CKTG plate. A few swipes and it is refreshed when needed. The 400/1k is only $35 and is a great combination for a variety of tasks, great for repair work also.

With that plate and the DMT, you should be set.