Thread: Escher vs Jnat for finishing

Originally Posted by eKretz

JNats can do a little more heavy lifting if they are used with a "diamond nagura" slurry, and one can even follow a 1k bevel setter with it. I still prefer final finishing on a JNat using tomonagura slurry though. I often do a progression of 1k to 1-2 "diamond nagura" slurries to 2-3 consecutive tomo slurries. If you want to use just the tomo slurry alone it's better to take the edge up to at least 8k synthetic first.

You're barely scratching the surface of what your Jnat can do if you're only using diamond and Tomo Nagura. A set of Asano Mikawa nagura (Botan, Tenjyou, Mejiro) offers a much greater range of grit/cutting ability. I go straight from a 1k King to Botan Nagura, and work that to remove the 1k striations. If the steel is particularly tough I'll then do a dilution or two with Tenjyou Nagura, otherwise I'll go straight to Mejiro Nagura for the final sharpening - usually 2 or 3 dilutions. After that, I will work Tomo Nagura, refreshing it just as it starts to change color until I'm satisfied with the sharpness; then a final dilution that I work all the way until it's completely broken down. I'll usually test shave before doing any work with just plain water; usually it isn't necessary, but if needed, I usually do less than 20 laps or it starts to get harsh. If 20 laps on plain water won't bring it up, the solution is another full dilution with Tomo Nagura.

I have one green Escher and one Nakayama Kiita so obviously that makes me an authority on the subject...
I don't compare the two, i just enjoy them for what they both are, great finishers.

The Escher’s and fine Thüringen’s were the Naniwia 12k’s of the day. Pretty bullet proof, just rub a well-set bevel on a wet stone and get a good shaving edge.

Jnats are more user dependent, and not all Jnats are razor quality, they are Naturals after all. Some in the right hands, are capable of a 2 percent better finish, than an Escher… As with any Naturals, there is a learning curve…

Not really a good comparison. What jnat are we talking about? It's like asking. What do you prefer? The ozuko asagi or European stones?

as it has been mentioned before. There's a lot of different jnats. Some good for razors others not so much.

The thuri is stupid easy to use and finish on. Some jnats are just as easy some of them are more tricky. It all depends on your stones and your skill level. a maxed out thuri edge is a joy to shave with. But so is a lot of other edges.

If you buy one high class finisher and learn how to use it to produce edges you like then it won't get much better than that. So take a pick on a finisher and hone daily. Try different things. After a while it will all come together.

Originally Posted by jkatzman

I realize it is a matter of preference, blade metal, stone and technique to name some variables but I interested in hearing from those who have used both what and why they prefer one over another. I own both. Let's keep the discussion on just the two types of stones.

Jnats are cheaper than yellow green Eschers

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Jnats are cheaper than yellow green Eschers

"Most" jnats are cheaper. I remember Alex posted a link to a Japanese hatanaka website. They had a maruka kiita listed for $50,000...

Originally Posted by prodigy

"Most" jnats are cheaper. I remember Alex posted a link to a Japanese hatanaka website. They had a maruka kiita listed for $50,000...

Ah yes Maruka kiita is like saying Red Ferrari.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Ah yes Maruka kiita is like saying Red Ferrari.

Yes that is an extreme example. Even still the average price when visiting Alex or Maksim website seems to be 600-2400, way more than an escher and by no means Ferraris.

Originally Posted by prodigy

Yes that is an extreme example. Even still the average price when visiting Alex or Maksim website seems to be 600-2400, way more than an escher and by no means Ferraris.

You don't need a Maruka stone to finish razors. Ballpark, $300 Asagi or Namito razor size stone is ample.

This is just my two cents, some nuances that caught my eye. I don't mean to do any comparison/contrasting of my own, as I have never used a Japanese natural (I would have, but mail disaster) and have a limited experience with Thüringer stones (two specimens).

Originally Posted by Euclid440

not all Jnats are razor quality, they are Naturals after all.

I get that Thüringer hones are apparently more uniform than Japanese naturals, which come from a wide variety of veins and mountains as opposed to the Thüringen rocks. But even those are naturals as well, so one would think there would be some variation (as demonstrated by the colour differentiations and subsequent classification). This is meant as a nuance rather than criticism of your general point.

Originally Posted by sqzbxr

Jnat, hands down. An Escher is pretty much a finisher, but a good Jnat will handle all your honing needs (except restoration/heavy bevel setting) plus give you a superior edge in my experience. Add a 1k for bevel setting and you're set for life.

But doesn't a good Japanese natural require a full nagura set-up to be a relatively fast all-in-one progression? I mean, I have set a bevel, then moved on to use a Thüringer hone as the only stone after that a few times, so it is a viable one-stone option (viable as opposed to merely possible). The key is renewing the slurry in time, which takes a bit of practice.