Thread: Toxic hones...

Originally Posted by KenWeir

I'd be amazed if they were allowed to do it any other way but traditionally. Just like Japanese swords are made from tamahagane, which is only smelted in a traditional tatara, which still uses the iron rich satetsu for ore.

Well, my original assumption prior to seeing that video was that the process would've been modernized, at least to some degree. And I guess it has because the fellow had a stone agitating machine he used to get a smooth surface, and I'm assuming he used a saw to seperate/shape the stone. But everything else I saw was done by hand.

He was still using a hammer, chisel, and large crow bar to seperate chunks from the vein, then tossed it into a bucket that he zip lines down to his little procesing center. And he kinda graded them on the spot, based on the color/tier of the vein it came from. "This part will be good for planes and chisels, this for fine chef's knives, and this for swords." kind of neat to watch.

IIRC the ones they grade as 'sword' stones are the ones we typically pounce on for razors. So...still somewhat on topic.

Originally Posted by Marshal

IIRC the ones they grade as 'sword' stones are the ones we typically pounce on for razors. So...still somewhat on topic.

I believe that 100%. Even a living national treasure like yoshindo yoshihara has to remove toxic inclusions from his stones. Nobody is immune, at any price, least of all us foreigners.

Dug this up taking a look around for that video. A very interesting thread with pictures of stones used by a Japanese Knifemaker:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...hetstones.html

Take a look at the toxic inclusion in that white Suita that he dug out. And that's one of his favorites!

Still can't find the video I'm talking about for the life of me though.

Yeah as long as you can skim a blade over where it was removed without damaging its edge the stone is still perfectly good to use.

Yeah, taking a look at that particular hone has me re-evaluating my opinion of hones with inclusions. Maybe it would do me well to learn how to dig that junk out and fill it in, rather than just presume a hone is 'useless' for my purposes.

Then again, I haven't had that sort of inclusion in any hone I've picked up either. Aside from the Dragon's Tongue they've all been fairly homogenous, and I never was able to spot and identify exactly what it was that ate up the surface of that stone.

I guess then that you could say that I've got some pretty good deals on stones where others passed on because of their potential "issues". Right now I've got a huge(to me) mad suita that had a couple of small what looked like rubies sticking out of it. Huge red flag to most people, but a few taps from by small nail punch and I'm left with a very well performing stone. One stone(too orange and sulfur smelling) I have is acidic but cuts madly. As long as I rinse the blade off immediately afterwards it is quite shaveable. And another couple renge stones that have some of the infamous black lines bearing meanies inside them, respond well to my carbon scribe. I actually like messed up stones. But then again, I am a tinkerer of all things broken or not quite right.

Originally Posted by Aerdvaark

I actually like messed up stones. But then again, I am a tinkerer of all things broken or not quite right.

Very much agreed. I like stones with a little character. Outright broken ones, maybe not so much. But flawed/imperfect, yet still functional, are more attention getting so to speak.

I think people need to be educated when it comes to toxic stones. Right now imo it is mostly taboo or a big no no to purchase anything even closely resembling any form of toxicity. I think the more people talk about it and offer solutions to the issues the more people can try these types of stones and have good to excellent experiences with them. I mean, I have not run across one toxic stone that could not be dealt with in one way or another to make the stone more than usable for a razor. Visually, most stones give away there toxicities quite easily.

Originally Posted by Aerdvaark

I think people need to be educated when it comes to toxic stones. Right now imo it is mostly taboo or a big no no to purchase anything even closely resembling any form of toxicity. I think the more people talk about it and offer solutions to the issues the more people can try these types of stones and have good to excellent experiences with them. I mean, I have not run across one toxic stone that could not be dealt with in one way or another to make the stone more than usable for a razor. Visually, most stones give away there toxicities quite easily.

That's exactly right, and the video of Ilzuka-San finishing his Shigefusa knives which can sell for well north of a kilobuck is a good example of function trumping toxicity. The karasu barber hone with the bias crack is one of my best razor finishers and people who have tried the edges agree.

If you reject any stone with a line or crack, you 'thin the herd' quite a bit if you're looking to max your odds of getting a world-class razor hone.

Stones that people put their names on, maruka, Hatanaka, etc are usually purer and have fewer defects than run of the mill stones though not necessarily better for a given purpose, and you pay more for the stamps than they're worth IMO.

Cheers, Steve

I think a large part of it is new people being scared off by the word toxic. It's a shame we can't make the world simply start calling them inclusions.