Thread: Can anyone explain the reason behind the X strokes?

I want to thank you all for your answers.

Reflecting on them, i still wonder if the X stroke is beneficial for a reason similar to the one that makes it easier to cut a steak with a table knife if you "slice" the knife back and forth through the flesh. I mean, it would be tougher to cut it with a straight downward cut, dont you think?

Wouldnt the X stroke "multiply" the friction between the edge and the stone, making it to remove more metal per stroke?


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Not multiply but the diagonal will be a bit longer than the length of the hone. Just look at ebay razors: I bet you that most of the frowning edges have been created by amateurs not using an X-stroke.

Only way to increase friction is more surface area in contact with the hone, and more pressure exerted on the two surfaces.

X strokes typically have less surface area in contact, and I don't use much if any pressure after the 1K hone. But if I needed to adjust that, I wouldn't do so by modifying my stroke.

When you start the stroke the area in contact is at the heel. As you proceed through the motion, the area that is in contact with the stone shifts toward the toe. The purpose is to ensure that the entire blade makes contact with the stone at some point - without risk of focusing too much pressure in the center and making a concave bow/frown of the edge.

If anything, we want less pressure and less material removed, especially toward the finishing phases.

Sometimes I dance to and fro as I am performing a rolling X and in this way I am able to achieve perfect dimensional pressure along the whole edge. If I am honing with circles then I spin myself clockwise to get the blade even unless I am performing the return stroke with circles. Why then, I spin myself counterclockwise. This is why I must "hand hone" as these gyrations are near impossible while seated at a table.

Naturally, I jest! Really though I have wondered the same thing at one time but through practice I understand it to be a "pressure" thing and not "what part of the blade is on the hone." I use circles, half strokes, straight up and back, heel forward, toe forward, X strokes, rolling X, lift the heel, lift the toe, side of the hone, a corner. Whatever it takes to get the whole edge sharp. That is the key. Do whatever it takes.

.....and one and two and spin and dip and jump and slide.

I watched Lynn's video on using it but the one that really explains it the best is the most recent video by Mastro Livi. He demonstrates it on his chromium oxide loom strop. He says that keeping the edge perpendicular on the hone or strop and using the X stroke keeps the blade surface flatter. He says the blade has a tendency to lift using a regular stroke. I use it and found it works the best. The blade is sharp and the bevel even. I also found that it won't leave nicks or marks on the strop.

I would ask, why the straight stroke?
I only have one blade in many that is truly flat.

In saying that I don't have many full hollows, they are more flatter than other grinds. (Bad English)

Originally Posted by kelbro

None that I've been able to discern as long as the hone is flat.

Still do it out of habit since I learned to hone on a 1 7/8" hone.

The two questions that need to be answered are:

1. "How straight is straight for the razor edge?"
2. "How flat is flat for the surface of the stone?"

We are trying to generate a razor edge that is uniform at the submicron level. A DMT Diaflat lapping plate is certified to be flat to +/-0.0005". While that seems impressive, 0.0005" (1/2 mil) is 12.5 microns. We are unlikely to get our stones much flatter than that.

Thus, to create a uniform edge on a razor that is not quite straight using a stone that is not quite flat, we need to use a combination of circles, straight strokes, and x-strokes. Another thing that I do is to rotate the stone 180 degrees mid-way through the honing on each stone to help compensate for variations in the flatness of the stone side to side.

The flatness of the stone, does not matter that much, because we are not honing on the exact same point with each stroke, that it is smooth, is more important.

A flatter stone is a bit more efficient, as more grit is in contact with the razor, but nothing that an extra stroke or two would not compensate for.

The age-old question, how did the old guys get their stones flat, before dial indicators and diamond plates? And how flat is a grinding wheel or a spinning sanding belt?

Gotta love the Esoteric discussions on SRP sometimes


One thread discussing the Flatness of the hones and the X stroke being needed and the one next to it discussing using Rounded and Convex hones


http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...ed-stones.html



Maybe I should just Merge the two and watch the fun

Hone and blade flatness aside. I do the x because it's what I taught my self over countless hours of reading and countless hours of practice.