Thread: Shapton kuromaku hones, lapping ?

Originally Posted by ejmolitor37

1K arrived today its lapped flat and ready to work. After I get a few sessions in ill give my amateur insight incase anyone would like to know about these.

I'd like to know how they stack up to your Nortons. I was particularly curious about the 12K. I was considering one to expand my synthetic line up, but I can't seem to make up my mind which direction I want to take with it.

Originally Posted by Marshal

I'd like to know how they stack up to your Nortons. I was particularly curious about the 12K. I was considering one to expand my synthetic line up, but I can't seem to make up my mind which direction I want to take with it.

I have the Shapton Kuromaku 1K and the 12K. Inbetween these i still use my Naniwa combination stones 800/5000 and 2000/8000. I enjoy both stones very much, because i prefer hard bound stones, i don't like the feel of the Naniwa resin bound stones that much. And i think, with the right touch you can achive a good egde.

I can't compare the Shapton Kuromaku to any known other brand 12K stone, the only other choice in artificial stones in that grid area is a DMD resin bound Diamond stone in 12K. The Shapton 12K is hard bound and stays true a long time, so far i reduced my trueing on diamond plates (400 grid cheap chinese) to once in ten razors. In between that i clean with water or a nailbrush and water and if it is more stained i use a Naniwa nagura ("the brown turd"). I am still testing an artificial 15K Metalmaster nagura, and so far i'm very happy with that combination, because a slight slurry makes the edge much more comfortable. To finish i clean up the stone and do eight to twelve strokes with clean water, that leads to the best sharpness without reducing the comfort. If you hone on water only and without nagura, it can produce a irritating harsh sharpness, but you can play around with your method to reduce that.

From what i read, the Norton 4K/8K may be comparable in hardness and feel, so to go from a Norton 8K to the Shapton 12K should be a decision that doesn't force you to adapt to a total different honing experience. The learning curve should be less then ten knives if you were able to produce good shaveable edges with the Norton 8K (my guess).

Originally Posted by Marshal

I'd like to know how they stack up to your Nortons. I was particularly curious about the 12K. I was considering one to expand my synthetic line up, but I can't seem to make up my mind which direction I want to take with it.

Marshal, so far I like my kuromaku hones. My use of Norton's is 1/4 Norton's which served their purpose and will still in the future.
I have kuromaku 1k,5k, and 8k. My 12k is naniwa super stone so it is not the same brand.
My comparison is not going to be 100% fair I suppose because its not full size stone comparison but...
The little bit I have used these stone so far has been positive. Last night I played with the 1k, IMO it was a fast cutter and clean. Made nice stria and was easy to use. I feel it cut faster than my norton 1k.
The 5k at first I felt was slower than my 4K norton but after using it and easing up on pressure I enjoy the 5k just as much. It seems like it may take a bit longer than the 4k but it does work well. Also I feel the 5k is a bit harder than the norton 4k.
8k kuromaku, after realizing my pressure was too much I got a great polish from this stone. When using too much pressure it seemed to want to scratch more so than polish but now that I have that sorted out I enjoy this new 8k.
Since getting my naniwa 12k I have nothing but positive things to say. Great polish and fairly quick. I took all my norton 8k edges to the naniwa 12k when it arrived and in 10 to 15 strokes maybe 20 I didn't count really it further polished the edge and to me it is a comfortable shave right off it.
Marshal I so far like my Sharpton kuromaku. Well worth the cost savings, great feed back from each stone while using it. You can feel it when things are right and ready to move up. Sorry I can't really answer your question about 12k shapton Marshal but I hope this helps. As I use them more I will give more information about my thoughts.

Hrm...no idea how I got the idea that you were getting a Kuromaku 12K as well. Oh well, Hein31 answered my questions in regard to that stone. Kind of doesn't surprise me, since Shapton in general are said to create a harsh edge compared to Naniwa etc. I suspect as Onimaru said earlier that pressure plays a lot into that. Less is more.

If you get a chance can you tell me what the shave is like off the Kuro 8K? That would give me an idea what to expect off the 12K I think.

Not that it's too pivotal. I don't necessarily want a 12K finisher as much as I do a synthetic beyond 8K to use as a base of comparison. And I've got plenty of naturals that could be used to soften up the edge if it were too harsh to just let stropping take care of it.

Your comparison to the 4k is also helpful. I'm not surprised the jump to 5k seems to take a while. 1k to 5k is quite a jump, and I suspect the Kuromaku stones were designed to have the 2k or something else worked in between 1 and 5. Which is a bit different from the Norton hones, which were designed to allow that 1k to 4k jump.

I will absolutely give you a shave off the 8k and let you know, I will see about giving that a go round tonight. Yes the 1 to 5 is a big jump and I am not honing for $ so I don't mind the quiet time and learning all along. You are correct that the Norton 1 to 4k jump is much easier a transition.

I will post shave results later tonight on the 8K shave for you Marshal, I have a feeling it will be just as my nortons were but we shall see.

Originally Posted by Marshal

Hrm...no idea how I got the idea that you were getting a Kuromaku 12K as well. Oh well, Hein31 answered my questions in regard to that stone. Kind of doesn't surprise me, since Shapton in general are said to create a harsh edge compared to Naniwa etc. I suspect as Onimaru said earlier that pressure plays a lot into that. Less is more.
I can shave of the 12k with a final touch on CrO but they are not a system for people with sensitive skin.

If you get a chance can you tell me what the shave is like off the Kuro 8K? That would give me an idea what to expect off the 12K I think.
Interested to hear ej's view also but 12k is clearly an improvement on the 8k shave IME.

Not that it's too pivotal. I don't necessarily want a 12K finisher as much as I do a synthetic beyond 8K to use as a base of comparison. And I've got plenty of naturals that could be used to soften up the edge if it were too harsh to just let stropping take care of it.
Been my routine for years. Jnats after 12k tho the 20k Gokumyo can be a good follow up too.

Your comparison to the 4k is also helpful. I'm not surprised the jump to 5k seems to take a while. 1k to 5k is quite a jump, and I suspect the Kuromaku stones were designed to have the 2k or something else worked in between 1 and 5. Which is a bit different from the Norton hones, which were designed to allow that 1k to 4k jump.

The 1k to 5k is a big jump because the 1k acts more like a coarser stone than 1k. There is a 1.5k as well as the 2k. And for stuff that almost needs a belt sander the 320grit is a gem. If using my HNK's I don't consider the bevel set till I reach 2k.
It's a versatile system as you can pick 1k, 1.5k or 2k as your starting point depending on edge state.
The HNK's are a system that works best with small jumps except at the 5k. There the 12k is an easy jump making the 8k redundant.

Well, the only reason I'm curious about the shave off the 8K is that's generally seen as the minimum for a good comfortable shave. I just hope he doesn't touch off the razor burn too bad experimenting for my sake.

I agree 12 is likely to be better than 8. And the Chrome Ox is another good point. I've got a bit of that lying about somewhere too. Many options to make it work for me rather than against me.

Just completed the shave Marshal.
So my steps, killed the edge on the 1k from there reset the bevel.
Once bevel was set killed edge again.
Bevel set again, this took about 10 minutes.
5k until had a nice even stria and 1k stria was removed. I didn't pay attention to the clock on this but it took a bit of time.
Went to 8k until I had a nice polish and edge then linen and leather. I don't count strop strokes.
Shave was just as I remember 8k shaves to be which is just fine. No razor burn and close and comfortable as I can get. I would honestly report there being little to no difference in these kuromaku hones and norton as far as an 8k edge goes for comfort and end result. I hope this helps any questions please ask and ill do my best to help.

Pardon my laziness for not bothering to research it myself, but can anyone explain the difference between the Shapton Kuromaku and the Pro?

Originally Posted by Utopian

Pardon my laziness for not bothering to research it myself, but can anyone explain the difference between the Shapton Kuromaku and the Pro?

My interpretation has always been that the kuromaku stones were the exact same as the pro. The only difference being where they were being sold. Pro stones sent to the US and Europe and kuromaku for sale only in Japan. I believe I read that in a mainaman post, but could be proven wrong I suppose.