Thread: jnat resources

Originally Posted by Midway

Thanks for your insight. Part of the issue is of course not being a Japanese linguist. The other part is trying to distill what is important versus what might be nice to know, but not useful to a newcomer.

The important things are : Particle fineness, Hardness, and speed. Bonus items are size , mine of origin and color.
Most importantly the stone should have been tested by the seller and guaranteed to work with razors.

Originally Posted by mainaman

The important things are : Particle fineness, Hardness, and speed. Bonus items are size , mine of origin and color.
Most importantly the stone should have been tested by the seller and guaranteed to work with razors.

Many thanks Stephan. While hardness is generally quantified by the seller, how does one determine fineness and speed? Are those things subjective and also disclosed by the seller?

I did reach out to Alex via email. Thanks for that piece of sage advice folks.

It may seem overwhelming at first, but once you start it is really just rubbing steel on stone. If you are good with smaller stones and like hand honing a smaller koppa is very economical. A lot of this type of stuff can be preference. What have you used before this can also make a difference in stone size and hardness as you will get a different type of edge feel the harder you go. Around a lv5 hardness is a good place to start. Some lv4+ can be just as good. The hardest part can be finding out what you like and your skin prefers.

Originally Posted by Midway

Many thanks Stephan. While hardness is generally quantified by the seller, how does one determine fineness and speed? Are those things subjective and also disclosed by the seller?

The seller is responsible to accurately determine those stone characteristics.

Properties of a good jnat razor hone are:

Fineness. If it isn't fine enough, nothing else matters. In the jnat world, hardness and fineness go hand-in-hand, though there may be a bit of latitude with any specific stone. What you want is one that's really, really fine but not so hard it takes forever to raise a slurry with the tomo nagura.

Narrow grit distribution: Fine isn't good enough if there are coarse particles mixed with the fine.

Purity: This means no lines, cracks, features or artifacts that are 'toxic' to the razor. A razor's edge is very thin and fragile, and it doesn't take much to damage it. This is usually not a problem with most dealers we know and do business with.

A 'good' binder or clay component: Takeshi-San at AFrames refers to this as 'how the grit lays on the hone'. It seems to vary a bit from mine-to-mine and layer-to-layer, but what you'd like in a finisher is one that's smooth and polishes well, absolute cutting speed isn't a requirement and most of my best finishers aren't super fast. I think this aspect also will allow you to use clear water honing to bump the edge a little if you want, something Stefan has mentioned before.

A good place to start is the Shobudani type 100 (100 is a size), from Alex, a Nakayama koppa (irregular stone like a coticule bout) from the knife maker Takeda-San, or a small koppa from Takeshi-San. Nakayama is always a good bet, Iwasaki-San mentioned Ozaki after Nakayama, but really any fine hard stone that's pure enough will get you started. I have many good ones that I have no idea what mine they came from.

Cheers, Steve

I'm getting quite an education. Perhaps this time the school of hard knocks may not grab me quite as hard..........maybe.

Originally Posted by Midway

I'm getting quite an education. Perhaps this time the school of hard knocks may not grab me quite as hard..........maybe.

Well, you can do like some of the rest of us. I started off with three stones, two of them were good (thanks to alex), the third was a pretty hideriyama stone that someone sold me off of ebay (I could've gotten double my money back for it if I'd have waited until they came back into style now, but what a useless stone it was). I could've stopped with those two stones. One suita for tools, one ozaki palm stone to finish razors.

But somewhere after that, I think maybe i've gotten another 50-75 stones? I've since learned that I don't keep much too long, maybe 15 stones at a given time, and it's important for me to recognize what's valuable and not just get something that looks neat, or I'll eat it when I sell. I've "eaten" a couple of grand at sale, sometimes $200 on a single stone. It's a bummer!

I like to treat it like golf. Sometimes your mind wanders or you try to take a hard line toward the hole that you know you shouldn't, and you end up with a bad score. Sometimes, you end up 5 feet from the pin. It's the latter that keeps you going.

Originally Posted by DaveW

Well, you can do like some of the rest of us. I started off with three stones, two of them were good (thanks to alex), the third was a pretty hideriyama stone that someone sold me off of ebay (I could've gotten double my money back for it if I'd have waited until they came back into style now, but what a useless stone it was). I could've stopped with those two stones. One suita for tools, one ozaki palm stone to finish razors.

But somewhere after that, I think maybe i've gotten another 50-75 stones? I've since learned that I don't keep much too long, maybe 15 stones at a given time, and it's important for me to recognize what's valuable and not just get something that looks neat, or I'll eat it when I sell. I've "eaten" a couple of grand at sale, sometimes $200 on a single stone. It's a bummer!

I like to treat it like golf. Sometimes your mind wanders or you try to take a hard line toward the hole that you know you shouldn't, and you end up with a bad score. Sometimes, you end up 5 feet from the pin. It's the latter that keeps you going.

I'm a bit of impulsive personality, so I've worked hard to keep myself in check. As far as the golf analogy goes, I've always leaned towards go big, or go home. So, as my brothers say, the prettiest swing of the bunch finds his way into more water hazards than necessary. We shall see if my current restraint will last.

One more thing for you Jnat honers who are married. Do your wives know how much money you are putting out there for 'rocks'? I think I'm going to have some splainin to do, or mail man intercepting.