Thread: Sealing synthetic waterstones

Keep in mind that sealing can lead to mould if the water cannot evaporate.

5 years and a full set of Naniwas and no sealing , with not a problem a one,, I do like Glen, soak for a few while using the preceding stone, set down for a few minutes so any thing that needs to normalizes, then my DMT for 3-4 figure 8,s to some slurry going then get after it. like I said no problems, and my 5k and the 8k snow white shoed those spider webs or crazing, yet has had no effect on its ability to hone smoothly. Tc

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

[...] like I said no problems, and my 5k and the 8k snow white shoed those spider webs or crazing, yet has had no effect on its ability to hone smoothly. Tc

Did the spider webs or crazing occur on the tops of the 5K & 8K? And if so, did the light lapping with the DMT completely remove it before use? Or did they hone smoothly, as you say, despite being crazed on the surface even after the lapping?

With an 8k, TC would have the SuperStone, aka Specialty, Naniwa hones. I never have heard of any crazing issues with them, but they certainly can swell/shrink due to moisture.

The crazing problem is with the higher grit Choseras, aka Professional, hones. As far as I know it affects the 5k the most and lesser so with the 10k.

HERE is a thread I started a long time ago about the variable swelling in the SuperStones. Some swell more in the middle and some more in the ends. The take home lesson was to deal with the water exposure consistently for consistent results.

Occam are you considering the Pro or Specialty hones?

edit: I should thank you for that thread, btw. It's a very helpful discussion of this topic I came across once I realized that maybe I wasn't imagining that my thin 12K hone was shapeshifting on me between lappings...

I mean, tcrideshd does mention it being an 8K Snow White, right? That thing is magnesia-based, like the Choseras and sufficiently high-grit to be pertinent, being between the 5K and 10K Choseras, which are the main culprits in the crazing/cracking conversation. Also, like I said, an 8K Snow White is what got me seriously thinking about this in the first place. I just assumed the 5K Naniwa referenced with regards to spider webs was a Chosera/Professional...

I've never heard of any problems with the Superstones and their ilk cracking or anything of the sort -- although i do have a thread going about soaking them. And to your point, the reason I am interested in soaking them is that it would be one way to be sure to have them consistently wet in an easily repeatable fashion. I suspect that no harm would come to them if I tried permasoaking them, but I am too chicken to try it for the time being.

I currently own or am thinking about acquiring most of the Chosera/Pro stones up to 5k and I have both the 10K and 12K 20mm Superstones (literally Superstones; my 10K is the based model, 12K is without base) and also a 10mm thick Kagayaki 12k (which is the most recent incarnation of the Naniwa 12k, AFAIK), which seems to be a slightly different shape every time I look at it...

Originally Posted by Occamsstrop

Did the spider webs or crazing occur on the tops of the 5K & 8K? And if so, did the light lapping with the DMT completely remove it before use? Or did they hone smoothly, as you say, despite being crazed on the surface even after the lapping?

Speaking for my 5k Chosera. The crazing is on the hone surface and does remain after lapping. I always at least give the surface a rub with the Naniwa rub stone to make sure that there are no steps in the surface, which can sometimes be felt with a fingernail when the stone is dry before use.

Originally Posted by Occamsstrop

I mean, tcrideshd does mention it being an 8K Snow White, right? That thing is magnesia-based, like the Choseras and sufficiently high-grit to be pertinent, being between the 5K and 10K Choseras, which are the main culprits in the crazing/cracking conversation. Also, like I said, an 8K Snow White is what got me seriously thinking about this in the first place. I just assumed the 5K Naniwa referenced with regards to spider webs was a Chosera/Professional...

Yup, sorry to say I totally forgot that the snow white was part of the discussion.

they honed smooth with the crazing still there I haven't tried to lap it out,, there was a disscusion on this a while back the only issue was it just wasn't pretty enough for some, the performance was not affected. as was said, I don't see the benefit of sealing these stones. it seems quite a bit of sealing is done for purposes of retaining the provenance of the stone, not protection,, I mean hell, naturals were subjected to a lot more torture than we give them and synthetics,, I,m sorry but most people use both sides, so sealing would lose some stone in my mind.

But hey , I say do what you want with your property. just know that I haven't had any issues nor has any of the guys I deal with or know in this honing world. Tc

myself I wouldn't permasoak the naniwas,, King yes naniwa no

The crazing on my Chosera 5k was bad enough to occasionally need lapping. Otherwise, as Bluesman pointed out, sometimes the edge of one of the regions would stick up high enough to catch a blade slightly.

TLDR: Yes, I am aware of how much of a waste of time this all is, arguably. No need to harp on it. *shrug* That said...

***

After an extra week's worth of curing time, my Naniwa dressing stone has now been submerged for half again as long. The spar urethane has only held up very satisfactorily in areas where the coats went on thin and drip-free.
Here's a couple of [poor quality] pictures of how it's looking:


This (#4) is the best side, it was brushed on while vertical but with thin coats so there were no big drips. Except for the bright white line (which was at the bottom originally) where it sagged all around, and never fully hardened before soaking, presumably because of excessive thickness.

This side (#2) has some drips which have turned white after the soak, it also has the same white line.


This (#5) was the top of the stone when I applied the urethane. Before soaking, it was the nicest looking side, but most of it has turned milky now. I believe that coating it while flat allowed too thick of a layer to be built up, which didn't cure as well as the sides; at least not with the curing time I was allowing between applications, based on the directions on the can.


Once saturated, the stone only very slightly absorbs extra water added to it. A few drops of water can stay on top for several minutes; this picture is taken after 5 minutes have elapsed. It does eventually soak in after 10 or so minutes. This stone's usual behavior with regards to water intake is similar to my King Deluxes, so there definitely is a marked difference.

***

I have taken a few measurements throughout, mainly as a reference point for other stones which I plan on messing with later...

I measured the dry, coated stone as:
L:2.660" x W:1.334" x H:1.948", 225g

After 12 hours soak, I measured:
L:2.664" x W:1.335" x H:1.945", 259g

After 8 days soak, I measured:
L:2.659" x W:1.334" x H:1.945", 258g

The length measurements are as close to being unchanging as my limited accuracy can vouch for. In fact, I am somewhat surprised that my readings came out so closely grouped. The weight measurement is practically identical between the two later measurements, the difference almost certainly being due to manipulation.

***

I am concluding from this that there is a decent chance for improving my results with the spar urethane if I apply thinner coats and make sure to avoid drips and sagging -- no big surprise there, really. I am pleasantly surprised at how well the sealant appears to be holding up in areas where the application was luckily better executed. I am also satisfied that this yields an exterior layer of sealant which does appear to function as a water tight shell. Finally, the measurements look to set a baseline for how much, or how little a stone expands when thoroughly soaked.

Now, moving on to my King Deluxe 1000...