Thread: Translucent Arkansas stone?

At the last gun and knife show there was a guy set up with a bunch of sharpening stones and gear and also sharpening knives. I looked around and he had a couple of translucent Arkansas stones. He couldn't tell me the grit, but said straight razor people loved them.

Any idea of what grit, and how well they'd work for straight razors? Right now I'm using Sharpton ceramic glass water stones, final grit is 8000 then leather stropping. I'd like to add a 16000 grit water stone and was wondering about the translucent Arkansas stone as they were kind of pricey.

Thanks

As most will tell you, you cant put a grit on a natural stone. They are not consistant. Some folks have made lists of what they think a natural stone grit is. You wont find it here but on the web. An Arkie is a very smooth stone. And a trans ark will be almost as sooth as glass after burnishing. They make great finishers for razors but they take a lot of work to make a razor have a great edge. Its because there is really not much for grit. Its a fine polishing stone for after your done putting an edge on the razor.

You could use it just fine after an 8k stone. You will find that after a few hundred perfect laps on a trans ark your edge will be very defined. Some folks like them and others dont because they are so hard and take a long time to get much from them.

Lots of info on trans arks here on the forum. Do a slight search and you will find more reading than your going to want to read. I have one. Its a good stone. But i find a synthetic stone (20k) more friendly and to my liking better.

If you’re looking for a quick path to a great edge you won’t find it with an Arkansas. I have one of Dan’s blacks. Arkansas stones for razors is a labor of love. The size of the grit particles is around the equivalent of a 1200 if you want to put a size to it. They are mostly silica, as I recall. The thing with an Arkansas, is unless you get one already flattened and polished to at least 120 you are looking at hours of work.

Look up some threads on flattening an arky.

My suggestion would be to buy a Dan’s Arkansas, they’re flat. It will be up to you to polish it. Most guys go to at least 600 grit. Loose sic is what you want to use not sandpaper or a diamond stone. Though a Chinese phig or 12k or 30 other names the stone has works good for initial polishing, assuming you have one laying around. When it feels pretty smooth then get your chisels or carbon knives or any hardened steel with an edge and start burnishing the stone with you favorite lube. You want to get that stone reflecting light when you look at it from a lower angle before you even attempt to finish a razor on it. The more you rub steel on it the better your edges will become over time.

Arkys are not forgiving, one wrong move and you need to go back to your last stone and correct the problem. An Arkansas that is burnished well won’t really cut steel at any appreciable rate, it more burnishes the bevels as opposed to cutting it. The reason to go back to the last stone is to not spend an hour, assuming you don’t make another mistake, trying to fix the apex.

You’ll also need to experiment with different lubricants, pressure (torque), and techniques. They’ll all change the feel of the edge on you face.

I come off my Naniwa 12k to an Arkansas, if I decide to finish on it. It gives the edge more sharpness and makes it a little more comfortable to my face. I’ve finished 7-8 razors on it so far. Each edge is better than the last, although only incrementally. I am a long way from learning everything this stone has to offer. I also burnish it with a chisel after every new razor finished on it so as not to get burnt out.

The stones are absolutely beautiful but a labor of love, mine was expensive but it was already flattened from Dan’s and polished a bit from the previous owner. After I read all the info I could find I came to the conclusion, if I want this rock I want to use it, not have another project I may not finish. So I spent a bit more than I could have but I also saved my self the time of having to completely flatten a stone had it come from somewhere else.

If you aren’t already maxing out your 8k edge, I would work more on my honing before really sitting down with an arky for finishing. It really does take a good consistent and persistent honer to get a good edge off of one.

Thanks for the info, as much as I'd like to play with one, I think I'll stick with the Sharpton ceramics for now, and likely get a higher grit one in the future. I will keep an eye out for one however.

Not much to add to the previous posts.
I can second the observation that Dans Hones come flat. And also that patience with burnishing the one side. And patience when using it is crucial to success with Arkansas stones.
Synthetics are the way to go if you want quicker results.
Many like me use them (Arkansas) in a type of progression. 1. Unburnished side. 2. Burnished side dry. 3. Burnished side with WD40.
When I do that my edge looks hazy like the pics I have seen with a Belgian hone. And the face feel is "smoother" than when I finish on my GOK 20K.
Touched up my Korratt 14 2.0 yesterday. It had a little tugging on the last shave.
I start each step with circles and finish with x strokes. This speeds things up. Approx. 20-30 mins.
If I touched it up with my GOK 20K it can be accomplished in 10 minutes.
If you use DE's. I would compare a Arkansas edge to my Voskhod blades. Sharp and smooth. And GOK 20K edge to Feathers.
My $.02 Ken

Thanks. I was lucky to have the sharpton set, mainly used for sharpening wood chisels and carving tools. Normally for most of the knives I make I use a Norton fine India, about 320 grit, followed by a fine Arkansas stone to put a little polish on the edge while still keeping the teeth.

With a straight razor, it's been an education in sharpening, and thankfully a 30x microscope I had comes in handy too.

For about $15 you can get an assortment of SIC grits, (60-500, enough to do many stones) from Got Grit.com, that will flatten any natural stone in 15-20 minutes, on a dollar store cookie sheet. Once flat, polishing running up the grits goes quickly. Polish up to 1 or 2k wet and dry will get you a nice finish ready for burnishing, as said with a wide chisel or kitchen knife with pressure. You only have to prep the stone once in its lifetime.

Prep one side to 500 or 1k and burnish the other for an ark progression and/ or touch up. From an 8k, finishing an edge it goes quickly. An Ark edge is a unique edge unlike any synthetic edge, it is smooth and crisp.

When I started with Straight Razors, I maintained a single razor for 10 years with just a 6 inch Translucent and a strop.

Large stones are nice but not necessary, occasionally you can find them at flea markets or on the bay for a few dollars. Pick up a small stone, polish and burnish and give it a try, I think you will like it. A Voskhod blades is a good comparison.

If you use DE's. I would compare a Arkansas edge to my Voskhod blades. Sharp and smooth. And GOK 20K edge to Feathers.
I totally get this comparison. The more I shave with my FatBoy DE (work days when I'm rushed), the more I love those Voskhod blades; I don't even really feel the blade, it's so smooth. My best Arkie edges are a lot like that.

And for what it's worth, I have mostly given up on the hundreds of laps Ark regimen as too much work. I have found that I can torque my edges quite a bit (at least on the beefier grinds that comprise the bulk of my rotation), and get much quicker results. You still have to be careful because they're so hard, but it makes that fabled ark edge a good deal quicker to achieve. I still finish with a few dozen lighter x-strokes. YMMV as always.

Don't expect a grit rating. I can tell you that I've reached a level of polish that rivals a 12k off mine. But grit as per the normal rating doesn't apply to an Arkansas stone as they do not release grit particulate matter to do the honing.

If you make a bad stroke with any hone, you've set yourself back a step. 100 laps isn't as bad as folks make it seem. What you might want to do is alter the way you make your strokes. I can go from a butter-knifed edge to shaving sharp in as little as 15 to 20 minutes with nothing more than a soft, hard, and translucent Arkansas set.

For reference, this is similar to the stroke pattern I use when honing on natural stones:



Much faster than make a pass, flip blade, make a pass, flip blade...that's good for the last 10-20 stokes, but it'll wear you out fast trying to get the most out of a lot of natural stones.

I see that the general perspective is consistent. Arks can be great finishers and not necessary very slow.

If you use SiC powder progression on a flat surface (glass is easier to find), you will be done with the stone very fast. I've done many, from very old white Hard arks that were always translucent, to black translucent, to new and so on. Even surgical black ones works fine if done right. After about #600 you can start burnishing it to a really smooth surface with a 3000 diamond pad. It's super easy and fast under running water. It takes a few minutes or less to get a glass like finish. I am now able to get one working in less than an hour from not flat to glass surface if needed, really taking my time. This is one way to do it. The other would be to go for a more abrasive approach. I've maintained or improved my edge with great results on a surgical black's side that I always kept away from getting too glassy, so not burnished. It worked extremely well, fast, very sharp, very comfortable. You just need to find that sweet spot. And I've started to strop right after this, skipping the very fine side completely. I only strop on plain leather, never more than 20-30 passes.
There is no real grit size on these. Translucent could take a huge amount of steel or pretty much none. It's all surface dependent. Eventually it gets finer and finer to a burnished surface either way. Keep in mind that it likes some type of fine oil lubricant or glycerin.

How do they compare to the Shaptons? Well, hard to answer that. I have used 500/1000/2000/4000/6000/8000/16000 set. I'm not sure what version of 8k you have, but the softer one is simply the best 8k stone for razors. I've done many tests and it's just great even if not used with the set. The 16k Shapton Glass stone needs a lot of maintenance. Some naguras will damage the surface. Most diamond plates don't really work or will change the surface to an undesirable one for razors. It gave me a lot of trouble until I managed to get it right. I know Shapton warns about this, but their solutions are crazy expensive.

If I were you now, after the 8k I would try to test the edge of a thuri stone. Coticules are very moody and every stone seems to be a different stone (more or less), translucent could be a bit more difficult to use, but thuringians are straight forward and very consistent. Just a thought.