Thread: Coticule Layer ID please

Dear Coticule users,

for some reason i was not able to start a new thread on coticule.be any more.
I'd like to identify the layers of 2 coticules i've recently purchased.

Hope you can help me assigning them to the layer/vein.

I've taken a picture of them together with other my coticules, which i already know.

The both triangual once on the bottom are under question.

I'm quite sure both of them are recently mined, the shallow I've purchased as "new" from sharpening shop on ebay, the bigger one - from a forum - member here in Germany.

The very shallow triangular one was purchased first, originally I was thinking its from La Grise vein, but as I had a bigger triangular one in my hands I got some doupts...
Both of them have has some grainy looking surface but with following differences:

The shallow is absoluteley smooth to the touch, feels like a polished glas, none of other my coties does feel like that. Its grain also looks significantly finer compared to the big-triangular one but still much more grainy compared to my La Dressante and la Petite Blanche. it has also more yellowish-orange color to it. While honing i feel a very good draw/sticking/friction. It does very little auto slurry while honing, I can only recognize the autoslurry by looking he edge under the micriscope, the edge shows some fine sporadic scratches among the polished surface. its quite slow on water and moderately fast on slurry.

The large triangular looks extremley coarse, under the loupe its surface reminds me to a sand dunes in a desert. The surface also feels quite rough to the touch. At its wider side its grain is finer and at its shallow side the grain looks significantly larger. The razor does also feel rough while honing but still leaves a very fine polished edge. Its super slow on water, no way to get the water dark using lightest finishing strokes, I can only see some shallow black line on a tissue after whiping the razor off. On slurry it is moderateley fast, maybe on the slower side.

Following pictures were taken by my mobile through a 20x magnification glas.
The Slim triangular's surface:



The wide side of the large triangular one:



The shallow coarse side of the large one:



Just to compare, the surface of my Coti which i've been told is a La Dressante:



And the finest-surface of the La Petite Blanche:



Some additional pics:
here are the only both stones dry:


wet:


slurried:


Oh yes, the large one has also some barrely visible greyish like-layers os so running diagonal to the surface (also seen on the wet picture):



And on the sides of the large one I can see some pink/orange colorations and some black lines:




The shallow one has some whitish dots:


Would realy appretiate your help

Thanks in advnace

Philipp

The yellowish bout might be a Grosse Jaune. Looks very much like mine.
If they were quarried recently Ardennes Coticule might know.

The larger one seems to be most probably a La Grise. At least a lot of typicals like the grainy look and structur especially from the sidematches. Please have a look at Henk's essay about coticules on side 34 and 35. From the pictures a little bit of green hue could also vote for La Verte, but the total appearance tends more to LaGrise - just my guess.
The yellowish one I am with Kees. Most compliance with Grosse Jaune. Nouveille veine has also these white spots but mor decent. So best guess is Grosse Jaune.

Regards Peter

Hello Peter,

Thanks a lot, I’ve just had a look to the La Grise documented in Henk‘s „Grinding and Honing Part 4“ (https://bosq.home.xs4all.nl/info%202...whetstones.pdf) and yes - I see similarities to my larger triangular one.
Also some descriptions which I‘ve found on Coticule.be are indicating it could be a La Grise.

I‘ve also read somewhere that La Verte is not always that green and could have the same color and structure as my one.
Do you know what are the differences (beside the color) between La Grise and La Verte?
I understand that both of them are typically on a slow but fine side of the spectrum.
Are some significant differences in hardness, draw while honing or in slurry?


Thanks a lot

Regards

Philipp

That's hard to answer. There are considerable differences between stones from the same layer.

For the large triangular one I actually would have guessed La Dressant Upper Layer but it sounds like you've maybe excluded it already. Still, as Kees pointed out there is lots of variation between stones of the same layer and La Dressant is a particularly diverse layer.

Originally Posted by ppetresen

For the large triangular one I actually would have guessed La Dressant Upper Layer but it sounds like you've maybe excluded it already. Still, as Kees pointed out there is lots of variation between stones of the same layer and La Dressant is a particularly diverse layer.

I was not aware stones from La Dressante layer may have such grainy surface.
From what I know the appearance within one layer is quite similar to all stones but their sharpening properties (speed on slurry/water, fineness) may vary.
But I don’t own a large number of specimens from any layer to being able to be certain on that.