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Thread: Arkansas

  1. #21
    Senior Member blabbermouth ScoutHikerDad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STF View Post
    Thank you, what do you do, how do you treat yours?
    6 x 2 is a decent size isn't it?
    6x2" is a fine size. In fact, some prefer no bigger for hand-held honing. As Brontosaurus says, it should come flat from Dan's, and need no lapping. You can check it across all dimensions with a steel ruler if you're unsure. They even lapped a 14"x4" special order primitive flat for me-I'm sure they do those 6x2's routinely.

    I'm not Brontosaurus, but as for how to prep your surface, his advice is spot-on. You might even leave the "bottom" side as is and see how it does in a progression-it might surprise you. Given a flat stone from Dan's, some don't even sand or burnish their stones at all; they just start using them. If you want to tweak that surface a bit, you could get a flat tile or left-over piece of granite (a sink cut-out works great if you can snag one from your local granite installer for cheap or even free, maybe). Euclid/Marty recommends a dollar-store cookie sheet. Get an assortment of wet-dry sand paper up to about 1k (maybe save the 2k to see how you like it at 1k-many stop there and prefer that little bit extra cutting power). Wet-stick it to your flat, smooth surface and go to town, making sure you sand evenly by using figure-8's, flipping it around frequently, etc. You might need several sheets of each grit depending on how obsessive you want to get.

    For my big black one, I cheated and used a power-sander, wet the paper and just moved it around, back and forth until the paper was loaded up. I even chamfered and radiused the sharp edges and corners with it very quickly (which is a good idea to avoid disastrous catches on your delicate edge). It worked even better than I had hoped it would, but I'm not sure if you would be comfortable trying that on a 6x2," especially if you have never treated one before. In either case, it is imperative to keep things moving evenly to keep your surface flat!

    Once you have a uniformly-sanded surface, many of us like to burnish that surface with our heaviest, hardest steel tools. This is a great chance to tune-up your biggest kitchen knives, chisels, a hatchet or similar. This is another YMMV subject with many competing opinions. You can do a search on this and the other forum and read many pages of threads on the topic

    I love the translucents, by the way. They have an almost waxed-glass feel to them that is just a joy to finish on-I like shaving lather on mine (though prefer WD-40 on my surgical blacks). Experiment and see what you like.

    And don't forget to take it into the darkest room in your house and put a head-lamp or similar up against it-pretty amazing that a rock will pass light!

    Post pics when you get it-Arks are endlessly fascinating stones!
    There are many roads to sharp.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Brontosaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STF View Post
    Thank you, what do you do, how do you treat yours?
    6 x 2 is a decent size isn't it?
    6" x 2" is fine. 5" x 2" used to be a standard dimension. I like that too.

    To lap a translucent Ark, I have used 120x, 240x, and 320x silicon powders on a 1/4" thick sheet of plate glass. Place ~1/2 tsp. of a powder and add a little water. Mark out a grid on the surface of the stone and lap until the grid is gone. Do not put pressure on the stone in guiding it, let its own weight do the work there. Some use figure-8s, I use an up-and-down and side-to-side motion when lapping. Clean the glass thoroughly in changing grits and use a paper towel to wipe up most of the grit in removing it, throwing it in the trash rather than rinsing it down the sink which can risk to seriously clog it. After 320x, I switch to wet/dry sandpaper on the glass plate in much the same way. Stop at 600x, or go on up to 1000x, 1500x, 2000x to really smooth it, your preference.

    The black hard is in theory, a finer stone, but these days I prefer a translucent. Mostly for the feel. A black hard feels brittle, a translucent feels very nice. Afterwards I finish with a pasted strop lined with the red Solingen crayon. Black crayon for touch-ups when the edge starts to fall off after repeated shaving. Just my way of approach. Many ways to skin this cat.

    P.S. I mostly use a translucent as part of a dedicated Arkansas progression. I think its action is a bit more aggressive that way, hence the use of a pasted strop afterwards in my case. Some use a translucent Arkansas after a synth progression taking things to a very high level. There, I sometimes wonder if the Ark might not be taming a potentially harsh edge rather than sharpening.
    Last edited by Brontosaurus; 08-06-2020 at 02:23 PM.
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  5. #23
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    So, if I understand correctly.

    I can use a 6 x 2 Arkansas Translucent as a finishing stone and it will do good things after a 12k Naniwa (asssuming I use it right of course).

    I can lap one side to 600 and the other to 2000, or just not lap it at all and use it straight out of the box.

    If I decide to lap one side to 600 and the other to 2000, can I just use 600 and 2000 Wet & Dry instead of the powder?

    I am trying to keep the prep as simple as possible and of course cost down as much as I can.

    I want to order the translucent this morning but want to make sure I know what I'm getting into first.

    Can a translucent be slurried, what with?
    Last edited by STF; 08-06-2020 at 02:42 PM.
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    Were you able to get a shaving edge on the razor you posted in the “Bevel Width” post?

    Hard Arks are finishers, that polish an edge slowly but finely. The trick is you must have a finished edge to polish first, a solid 8-12k shaving edge, or you spend some time on the stone.

    They are natural stones and can vary, stone prep can also make a lot of difference in the finish they produce. They are hard stones and if not flat, it will take you a while and lots of muscle to get to flat with sandpaper. Once flat, they will polish quickly with sandpaper. I use 60 grit loose silicone oxide on a steel cookie sheet on flat cement floor to get to flat.

    The good news, is you only need to flatten it once, take one side to 600 the other to 2k, then burnish it to suit. Chances are out of the box results will be disappointing.

    Bottom line is if the edge is not refined, an Ark finisher will not improve an edge much. Ark edges are unique edges, keen and smooth when done right, they are however, very technique driven.
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    "Can a translucent be slurried, what with?"

    I don't know anyone who slurries a finishing-grade Ark. They don't work like other finishers that are commonly slurried (thuris, cotis, JNats to name a few). For one thing, they are too hard to work up a slurry from the base stone without trashing a diamond plate, and it's really not needed in any event. You're really just polishing and smoothing an already shave-ready edge.

    My guess is that Arkie slurry, if you could even generate usable amounts, would be so hard and sharp-edged due to its colloidal fracturing structure that it would take your edge backwards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclid440 View Post
    Were you able to get a shaving edge on the razor you posted in the “Bevel Width” post?

    Hard Arks are finishers, that polish an edge slowly but finely. The trick is you must have a finished edge to polish first, a solid 8-12k shaving edge, or you spend some time on the stone.

    They are natural stones and can vary, stone prep can also make a lot of difference in the finish they produce. They are hard stones and if not flat, it will take you a while and lots of muscle to get to flat with sandpaper. Once flat, they will polish quickly with sandpaper. I use 60 grit loose silicone oxide on a steel cookie sheet on flat cement floor to get to flat.

    The good news, is you only need to flatten it once, take one side to 600 the other to 2k, then burnish it to suit. Chances are out of the box results will be disappointing.

    Bottom line is if the edge is not refined, an Ark finisher will not improve an edge much. Ark edges are unique edges, keen and smooth when done right, they are however, very technique driven.
    It took some time and redo's but my razors can all pass an hht an treetop arm hair now. I know that probably doesn't prove too much but my shaves are the closest I've ever had.

    Obviously I've had some wicked edges on razors I have had sent to me or bought from here and they were almost certainly keener than mine but I have to say, my edges feel like they shave just as well so I must be doing something right.

    Someone told me that honing is not that hard, just watch the water. Great advice and it put things into perspective.

    I know that a natural is going to be some kind of steep learning curve but I am going to become very good at honing or die trying.
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    Sounds like you're already getting great edges that are comparable to expert-level off your Nani 12k. Given that and your "take no prisoners" attitude, you may not find the learning curve too intimidating. And the cool thing is that you're always learning. Even after a few years of messing with different arks, I'm always learning how far I can push them on a particular stone given different techniques.

    As Marty said, Arks are very technique driven, probably more than almost any other finisher, which makes them endlessly fun to play around with to see what results you get.
    There are many roads to sharp.

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    Fun stones and it seems most find something that works for them. I much prefer a hand held size, 2x6 is pretty good for that.

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    Senior Member Brontosaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STF View Post
    So, if I understand correctly.

    I can use a 6 x 2 Arkansas Translucent as a finishing stone and it will do good things after a 12k Naniwa (asssuming I use it right of course).

    I can lap one side to 600 and the other to 2000, or just not lap it at all and use it straight out of the box.

    If I decide to lap one side to 600 and the other to 2000, can I just use 600 and 2000 Wet & Dry instead of the powder?

    I am trying to keep the prep as simple as possible and of course cost down as much as I can.

    I want to order the translucent this morning but want to make sure I know what I'm getting into first.

    Can a translucent be slurried, what with?
    As for lapping the two sides for starters, I would recommend leaving one as it is out of the box and lapping the other to 600x. See what that gets you. Further smoothing on that side can either be achieved by the razors themselves or by lapping to a higher grit later. Similarly, see how the un-lapped side compares to the lapped side as to more aggression, eventually lapping the unlapped side with 120x grit to return it to a more aggressive surface as needed.

    Normally, no slurries with arks, particularly with its own material. Some will add slurries from other rocks but I never do this. I use oil with an Arkansas which pretty much precludes a slurry.
    Last edited by Brontosaurus; 08-06-2020 at 07:07 PM.
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    You know, now that I think about it I tried thuri sluri on an Ark a couple of months back, as I had gotten excellent results doing that on a Zulu Grey, but it didn't help the Arkie as I recall, so again, why bother? Forget the slurry and keep it simple, then you can play with variables as you learn your stone and what it can do.

    (I know, the obvious question is, why not just do thuri slurry on a thuri, duh? I like to experiment occasionally-sometimes you hit pay dirt doing that).
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