Thread: 12K Stone Thoughts

I'm curious about your 8k Suehiro. Could you provide some info on it?

Originally Posted by Brontosaurus

I'm curious about your 8k Suehiro. Could you provide some info on it?

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. It is just a cheap 4k/8k combo stone. I love it, though. The feedback is so clear it's like it speaks English. Sadly, it cusses a lot and calls me an idiot, but it may be nicer to other people.

https://www.amazon.com/SueH-Design-S.../dp/B07J6NYB32

Originally Posted by planeden

Cool, good tip. Is it because it is fragile or to get it off the table/better grip?

I have one of the stone holders that my diamond plate came with that should fit it. I wonder if that would be enough support for it? If not, I have some tile. Just have to figure out a way to cut it. Crecentcityrazors has a source for cut to fit plexiglass, too.

The link I gave you yesterday to an $85 12K Nani was the S1 which is 10mm, the S2 is 20mm and cost $104 I think from the same place.

I got my Nortons and my 12K Naniwa from the same place but they cost me more due to the Canadian exchange.

I got the 20mm thick one because I thought it might last longer with frequent flattening/refreshing of the stone and I haven't got a stone holder so I can just sit my 20mm on an old towel.

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/N...one-P1612.aspx

I have a set of the 10mm Naniwas. I had warp problems as well. I found that storing them to dry, was best done on their edge.

By doing so, it let air circulate around the stones for a more even drying, and very little warping.



Try using your little Thurigan after the 12k. Instead of the pasted strops, go to leather for 60-80 passes and see how it shaves, for a comparison.

That's how I used to tame the 12k edge, instead of a Cr/Ox pasted strop.

Originally Posted by planeden

Thanks Mark.

I suppose a follow up question (to anyone). What am I getting by going from 8K to 12K? Does that just save time on the white and green pasted strop or does it replace the pasted strops? Or does it improve the edge even if going to the pastes after?

The benefit of a 12k stone or equivalent lapping film is that the precise flat triangular nature of the bevel, is preserved further into the honing process. You can of course use the pasted strop after the 12k stone, just like you do after your 8k now. FWIW I do not care much for any abrasive pastes or powder other than diamond paste, and I only use it on lapped and supported balsa. That setup works extremely well when starting with a 12k Naniwa edge or a 1u lapping film edge. I will get around to posting a tutorial here on SRP one of these days though I have written extensively on this on B&B and on my own website. Pastes can cause a very slight rounding of the apex among other things, and I have always felt it better to keep the apex as precise as possible, as far into the honing process as possible.But anyway, you will end up with a much keener edge by adding the 12k or else 1u film to your progression. I do believe it will make your honing and your shaving more enjoyable. I would not think of honing without one or the other. I have both and I switch back and forth as the mood strikes me unless my rocks need lapping and I just don't feel like doing it right then.

I will echo everyone else about the Naniwa SuperStone 12k. It does a fine job, especially if well lapped on a very flat surface. Yeah it is a few dollars over your proposed budget, but not by much. You could also go with 1u lapping film on an acrylic base, especially if you don't hone a lot of razors, or if it is very important that you stick to your budget. A proper acrylic plate (3" x 12" x 3/4" or thicker, cast acrylic sheet cut to order) from TAP Plastics will only set you back about $13 and film is just a couple bucks a sheet. Each sheet is cut lengthwise in thirds and each piece is in my experience good for about a dozen razors, or more according to some others, so at least 36 razors and maybe more, if you don't slice up your film while honing. By that it would seem that you can hone 1476 razors on lapping film for what the Naniwa costs. The Naniwa's cost is up front. The film's cost is spread out. The Naniwa should hone the same 1476 razors and still have some use left in it. I haven't really made a study of it but I am pretty sure I have honed at least 500 razors on my Naniwa 12k and the stone is only marginally thinner for it. Overly aggressive lapping will accelerate wear. If you won't use the stone 1476 times in your life, then obviously film is more economical, but we are really talking chimp change here. So it's all about the up front cost.

As far as effectiveness goes, 1u film on a nice flat plate is capable of a very very slightly sharper edge, but you would be hard pressed to tell the difference even in a side by side test. However remember that the plate does not wear, and always remains flat because the razor does not contact it. A stone does not remain flat and must be lapped periodically.

If you do not use diamond on balsa for edge maintenance, then you will be occasionally refreshing your razor on your finishing stone or film. Your other stones will only get used when you get a new or new to you razor, or hone one for someone else.

Originally Posted by STF

The link I gave you yesterday to an $85 12K Nani was the S1 which is 10mm, the S2 is 20mm and cost $104 I think from the same place.

I got my Nortons and my 12K Naniwa from the same place but they cost me more due to the Canadian exchange.

I got the 20mm thick one because I thought it might last longer with frequent flattening/refreshing of the stone and I haven't got a stone holder so I can just sit my 20mm on an old towel.

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/N...one-P1612.aspx

Have you tried honing in hand?

Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors

Have you tried honing in hand?

I use my Arks in hand because they are only 6x2 but I don't hold my synths. The naniwa 12K only gets less than a dozen finishing strokes so my old towel always seems good enough although I am toying with idea of a stone holder, they have some cheap ones on Amazon so I might go that route unless someone here explains why cheap stone holders are a bad idea.

I glued my thin 12k nani to a piece of tile. Ive had no real issue with it. Its a great stone to have in your stone collection. After that pick up the 20k gok. Then your hooked!

Originally Posted by STF

I use my Arks in hand because they are only 6x2 but I don't hold my synths. The naniwa 12K only gets less than a dozen finishing strokes so my old towel always seems good enough although I am toying with idea of a stone holder, they have some cheap ones on Amazon so I might go that route unless someone here explains why cheap stone holders are a bad idea.

When I was buying my first stone, I called up Phil at classicshave.ca. I had chatted with him in the past, and he had honed some of my razors previously, so I trusted his opinion. He told me not to buy a stone holder, especially while learning. His reasoning was that with a stone holder, it was too easy to use too much pressure, which is pretty much the biggest mistake beginner honers make. With just a folded towel under the stone, it becomes very obvious when too much pressure is being used. Anytime a vendor tells me not to buy something, I listen.

Nowadays, I have a few thin natural stones that are a pain to use on a towel, so I did eventually buy a stone holder - but only after a few years of going without.

Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors

. By that it would seem that you can hone 1476 razors on lapping film for what the Naniwa costs. The Naniwa's cost is up front. The film's cost is spread out. The Naniwa should hone the same 1476 razors and still have some use left in it. I haven't really made a study of it but I am pretty sure I have honed at least 500 razors on my Naniwa 12k and the stone is only marginally thinner for it. Overly aggressive lapping will accelerate wear. If you won't use the stone 1476 times in your life, then obviously film is more economical, but we are really talking chimp change here. So it's all about the up front cost.

Ultimately it comes down to pleasure of use IMO. I started with film, but ended up finding it finicky.

Start up costs for film is low, but in the end it was money that I didn't need to spend at all.