Thread: 12K Stone Thoughts

Originally Posted by STF

The link I gave you yesterday to an $85 12K Nani was the S1 which is 10mm, the S2 is 20mm and cost $104 I think from the same place.

I got my Nortons and my 12K Naniwa from the same place but they cost me more due to the Canadian exchange.

I got the 20mm thick one because I thought it might last longer with frequent flattening/refreshing of the stone and I haven't got a stone holder so I can just sit my 20mm on an old towel.

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/N...one-P1612.aspx

My father in law asked me what I wanted for Xmas and I sent him your link. He is a knife guy and a leather worker, so he knows hones and may look around a bit. I wasn't sure of his budget, so I just set it for $75. But, he is a knife guy. Once I pulled out my pocket knife that I had used the day before on a business trip to cut a whole lot of butcher paper. He felt the edge and disgustedly tossed it back to me and handed me a hone. He is the reason I HAVE to keep all my knives sharp.

I have a hen and rooster pocket knife he gave me that has a very small bevel angle. I try all my stuff on that before putting a razor on it. It really wants to top trees, but I can't quite get it there. But I can feel it trying. Maybe with my 12K namina I can get it there.

Originally Posted by outback

I have a set of the 10mm Naniwas. I had warp problems as well. I found that storing them to dry, was best done on their edge.

By doing so, it let air circulate around the stones for a more even drying, and very little warping.

Attachment 327531

Try using your little Thurigan after the 12k. Instead of the pasted strops, go to leather for 60-80 passes and see how it shaves, for a comparison.

That's how I used to tame the 12k edge, instead of a Cr/Ox pasted strop.

Thank you sir. I hope since these don't soak it will not take them as long to dry as my 8K stone (about a week). I store it wet now. But, I will dry it on the edge and maybe on a grate. I do think I will go to TAP plastics and give it a nice base, though.

I will try the thugingian instead of the strop. I've got it all flattened and ready.

Originally Posted by outback

I have a set of the 10mm Naniwas. I had warp problems as well. I found that storing them to dry, was best done on their edge.

By doing so, it let air circulate around the stones for a more even drying, and very little warping.
Try using your little Thurigan after the 12k. Instead of the pasted strops, go to leather for 60-80 passes and see how it shaves, for a comparison.

That's how I used to tame the 12k edge, instead of a Cr/Ox pasted strop.

Yep, yep, yep, ‘cept I have the 10k

Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors

The benefit of a 12k stone or equivalent lapping film is that the precise flat triangular nature of the bevel, is preserved further into the honing process. You can of course use the pasted strop after the 12k stone, just like you do after your 8k now. FWIW I do not care much for any abrasive pastes or powder other than diamond paste, and I only use it on lapped and supported balsa. That setup works extremely well when starting with a 12k Naniwa edge or a 1u lapping film edge. I will get around to posting a tutorial here on SRP one of these days though I have written extensively on this on B&B and on my own website. Pastes can cause a very slight rounding of the apex among other things, and I have always felt it better to keep the apex as precise as possible, as far into the honing process as possible.But anyway, you will end up with a much keener edge by adding the 12k or else 1u film to your progression. I do believe it will make your honing and your shaving more enjoyable. I would not think of honing without one or the other. I have both and I switch back and forth as the mood strikes me unless my rocks need lapping and I just don't feel like doing it right then.

I will echo everyone else about the Naniwa SuperStone 12k. It does a fine job, especially if well lapped on a very flat surface. Yeah it is a few dollars over your proposed budget, but not by much. You could also go with 1u lapping film on an acrylic base, especially if you don't hone a lot of razors, or if it is very important that you stick to your budget. A proper acrylic plate (3" x 12" x 3/4" or thicker, cast acrylic sheet cut to order) from TAP Plastics will only set you back about $13 and film is just a couple bucks a sheet. Each sheet is cut lengthwise in thirds and each piece is in my experience good for about a dozen razors, or more according to some others, so at least 36 razors and maybe more, if you don't slice up your film while honing. By that it would seem that you can hone 1476 razors on lapping film for what the Naniwa costs. The Naniwa's cost is up front. The film's cost is spread out. The Naniwa should hone the same 1476 razors and still have some use left in it. I haven't really made a study of it but I am pretty sure I have honed at least 500 razors on my Naniwa 12k and the stone is only marginally thinner for it. Overly aggressive lapping will accelerate wear. If you won't use the stone 1476 times in your life, then obviously film is more economical, but we are really talking chimp change here. So it's all about the up front cost.

As far as effectiveness goes, 1u film on a nice flat plate is capable of a very very slightly sharper edge, but you would be hard pressed to tell the difference even in a side by side test. However remember that the plate does not wear, and always remains flat because the razor does not contact it. A stone does not remain flat and must be lapped periodically.

If you do not use diamond on balsa for edge maintenance, then you will be occasionally refreshing your razor on your finishing stone or film. Your other stones will only get used when you get a new or new to you razor, or hone one for someone else.

Thanks CCR,

This was close enough to the budget for me. I did spend a lot of time on your website one day. Had I gotten that before I started honing I may have gone with films and balsa. But, I already had the stones and I glued some leather to a 2x4 and got a pasted strop.

I have been using my pasted strop every few shaves to maintain my edge. All those months ago, when I only had one razor, it had been a couple years since I had to put my razor on the stone. That is actually why I bought a fist full of rusty razors was so I would have something to hone.

I am still new here and am pretty much self taught. So, I don't know much about some of the terms thrown around. Rolled edges, finned edges, keenness, to name a few. I still need to search for those and figure it out. I have gotten a loupe, but am not good enough with it to figure out what the edge looks like. I am just looking for shiny spots when I am bevel setting. After that I just go by how it tops trees.

As for honing in hand...well...no. Aside from playing with the thurningian which is too small to use on a table, I have not honed in hand since high school. And judging by that one, I really shouldn't . I made a joke one here once about timing my stokes to make sure both hands are shaking in unison. Sometimes, I need my free hand to steady the blade a bit. STF told me not to put my fingers on the blade, so I figured out another way.

I THINK that I am doing OK with pressure, though. I really don't use any pressure outside of the slight torque I put on he blade. The way it was explained to me that stuck was to just try to shave a thin layer off the stone. When I put tape on the spine (I know, I know) there is no wear on it from 1K to 8K.

Originally Posted by Gasman

I glued my thin 12k nani to a piece of tile. Ive had no real issue with it. Its a great stone to have in your stone collection. After that pick up the 20k gok. Then your hooked!

I think I will go to Jnats before that. I saw a guy on youtube that had one large Jnat and then a bunch on smaller chunks of various types that he would use to make a slurry. I think he used that one stone and the various slurries to go from bevel set to finished razor on the one stone. If that is possible that just seems so cool.

Originally Posted by STF

I use my Arks in hand because they are only 6x2 but I don't hold my synths. The naniwa 12K only gets less than a dozen finishing strokes so my old towel always seems good enough although I am toying with idea of a stone holder, they have some cheap ones on Amazon so I might go that route unless someone here explains why cheap stone holders are a bad idea.

My stone holder came with my diamond plate. I think the diamond plate I got was $2 more expensive than the one that didn't have the holder.

Originally Posted by joelkerr

When I was buying my first stone, I called up Phil at classicshave.ca. I had chatted with him in the past, and he had honed some of my razors previously, so I trusted his opinion. He told me not to buy a stone holder, especially while learning. His reasoning was that with a stone holder, it was too easy to use too much pressure, which is pretty much the biggest mistake beginner honers make. With just a folded towel under the stone, it becomes very obvious when too much pressure is being used. Anytime a vendor tells me not to buy something, I listen.

Nowadays, I have a few thin natural stones that are a pain to use on a towel, so I did eventually buy a stone holder - but only after a few years of going without.

I hone with soaking stones on a wooden table. So, even the stone holder is on a towel. But, so far I have only used it with the diamond plate. None of my other stones will fit it anyway.

Originally Posted by planeden

I think I will go to Jnats before that. I saw a guy on youtube that had one large Jnat and then a bunch on smaller chunks of various types that he would use to make a slurry. I think he used that one stone and the various slurries to go from bevel set to finished razor on the one stone. If that is possible that just seems so cool.

Using a JNat with nagura is a whole different ball game, it’s a rabbit hole with no bottom. (check out Mainamans vid on the front page) The Gok 20k, like the Naniwa 12k, is fool proof.
**as long as your bevel is set**

Originally Posted by bluesman7

Ultimately it comes down to pleasure of use IMO. I started with film, but ended up finding it finicky.

Start up costs for film is low, but in the end it was money that I didn't need to spend at all.

Yeah, I am not sure how it would feel. Same thing with the glass plates. I am also used to watching how the swarf builds up and flows along the stone as a guide to how I am doing. I don't think you get those very wet, so I would lose one of my guides. I recently bought another cheap combo stone (1K/6K) that had almost no feel to it and couldn't really see the swarf. I tried it twice and gave it away.

Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

Using a JNat with nagura is a whole different ball game, it’s a rabbit hole with no bottom. (check out Mainamans vid on the front page) The Gok 20k, like the Naniwa 12k, is fool proof.
**as long as your bevel is set**

I'll probably wait until I can justify the Jnat cost before tempting myself with that video. Nah, who am I kidding, I will go watch it now.