Thread: A couple of quetions about hones

Hi guys,

I want to talk hones and hopefully get some advice/opinions.

I have 220/1K Norton 4k/8k Norton and 12k Nanaiwa SS. I also have 400/1K Diamond Plate.

First what are the general opinions regarding the Nortons, are they highly rated or stones that nobody except new honers use?

I am considering a 600 Chosera, is it a regular start to a bevel set progression to 1K or is it a stone that's rarely going to be used?

Shaptons cost a lot more, what is the reason and are they some sort of super magical stones.

My Diamond plate was real rough on the 400 side when I got it on Saturday. I lapped my 220/1k Norton, corrected a stabilizer and actually tried honing on it and probably caused some nice chips in my edge.

The 400 has gone from really rough to really smooth, not what I would expect a 400 to feel like. Should I return it or is supposed to go like that?

Lastly, and I have asked a friend here what he thought so no disrespect intended, I am just interested in the general consensus.

When my razors start to pull a bit and need a touch up on my 12K Naniwa, is there any reason why I can't use my Trans Ark instead?

My own opinion here, but you really don't need anything courser than 1K hone for setting a bevel and that is only if it has big chips or other major problems. Otherwise a 3K or 4K hone can set a bevel nicely and not leave as deep striations as the 1K making it easier to remove those striations on the next hone in your progression. My finish hone is a 12K Naniwa. If I bevel set on a 1K Naniwa then I go to a 3K Naniwa followed by an 8K Naniwa then the 12K Naniwa. If you catch the edge before it deteriorates too much a 12K hone should be all you need

I only use a diamond plate to lap my hones or reshape the heel to get the stabiliser off the hone. It can be damaging to the edge if used for honing as you have found out.

Bob

Never used a Norton, though they were the go to hone back in the day, the Naniwas bumped them out.

Norton's need to be soaked, constantly.
Naniwas... Wet n hone away.

600 should be left for knives, it's a bit course for a razors delicate edge. 1k is perfect for razors.

For the diamond plate.

I use a worn, fine grt (red) for making slurry.

I use my med grt. ( blue ) for bread knifing, or reshaping the heels.

1k chosera... bevel setter
Progression..5,8,12. If I were to use my synthetics. But I much prefer a natural progression, after bevel set.

To refresh...I'd step back to a 8k, then finish on 12k. If you like the Ark edge, then apply it after the 12k.

Its just faster than trying to hone out the 8k stria, with the slooow Arks.

That's my opinion, YMMV

Just a question:

I see (and I'm testing too this way) many reputable guys going from Sinth 1K directly to a fine/hard Jnat (& naguras/tomos of course).
So, i was guessing if isn't too much stress for the edge an 1/3/5/8/12 K synthetic pyramid (as many others do)?
Aren't these too near each other?
Couldn't be an 1/5/8 (or 10/12) K enough to get a good polished bevel?

Originally Posted by Skorpio58

Just a question:

I see (and I'm testing too this way) many reputable guys going from Sinth 1K directly to a fine/hard Jnat (& naguras/tomos of course).
So, i was guessing if isn't too much stress for the edge an 1/3/5/8/12 K synthetic pyramid (as many others do)?
Aren't these too near each other?
Couldn't be an 1/5/8 (or 10/12) K enough to get a good polished bevel?

I go 1/4/8/12

I haven’t had to reset a bevel in quite a while, but when I did, my progressions was 1k, (4k, 8k Norton), combo coticule and then a finish polish using a Vermio or Oozuko.

I have a 30k Shapton Glass (the small version for knives, so not a lot of $$$), but it never really seemed to get me where my natural polishing stones did, so it only comes out occasionally when I want to see what it can do.

Regular maintenance stropping includes chromium oxide on a paddle strop about every 5th shave.

When a blade’s edge feels like it needs a refresh, I usually use the BBW side of the combo coti followed by the coti side. Occasionally I try the 30k Shapton, but it has never really worked for me.

Originally Posted by STF

I go 1/4/8/12

As fast as the Naniwas are, 1,5,8,12, was a perfect progression. Its fast, and very consistent. My only dislike, was the 12k edge. The edge from the synthetics, were a bit too crisp, for my skin. But I could go to a natural finisher, after the 12k, to make what my skin likes.

Now I just use the 1k chosera for bevel setting, and then a natural progression, to finish.

Originally Posted by Skorpio58

Just a question:

I see (and I'm testing too this way) many reputable guys going from Sinth 1K directly to a fine/hard Jnat (& naguras/tomos of course).
So, i was guessing if isn't too much stress for the edge an 1/3/5/8/12 K synthetic pyramid (as many others do)?
Aren't these too near each other?
Couldn't be an 1/5/8 (or 10/12) K enough to get a good polished bevel?

I go 1k to Jnats..You cannot compare Synthetic stones to jnats because synthetics are about removing steel & striations where as Jnats work in a different way and each one works differently.
I have a Nakayama Hon Suita which goes from 1k bevel set to full Kasumi finish drop dead edge on a wedge within 15 laps, nearly no swarf..
Thanks

There used to be a guy on here that did a crazy almost every grit progression, 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,10 and 12k, or something like that. He swore by that progression.

There is nothing wrong with the massive progression, but it just was not needed. It does not affect the edge negatively, just no need for that many stones.

Now if you are honing a razor that has been buffed or had edge correction, large chip removed, then the edge can benefit of more time on the stoned. That kind of honing is not regular maintenance honing it is repair honing and usually will chip out some or micro chip at the final stone of after a few stropping’s.

For edges that have been repaired I would use a 1,4,8 k and finish on a natural, Jnat or Ark progression and joint the edge at the end of each stone in the progression and strop the edge on Chrome Oxide on sailcloth, then rebuild the edge on the next stone.

Restored or buffed edges can be weak and tend to chip so removing a bit more edge to insure you are down to solid steel is good insurance.

Originally Posted by STF

Hi guys,

I want to talk hones and hopefully get some advice/opinions.

I have 220/1K Norton 4k/8k Norton and 12k Nanaiwa SS. I also have 400/1K Diamond Plate.

First what are the general opinions regarding the Nortons, are they highly rated or stones that nobody except new honers use?

I am considering a 600 Chosera, is it a regular start to a bevel set progression to 1K or is it a stone that's rarely going to be used?

Shaptons cost a lot more, what is the reason and are they some sort of super magical stones.

My Diamond plate was real rough on the 400 side when I got it on Saturday. I lapped my 220/1k Norton, corrected a stabilizer and actually tried honing on it and probably caused some nice chips in my edge.

The 400 has gone from really rough to really smooth, not what I would expect a 400 to feel like. Should I return it or is supposed to go like that?

Lastly, and I have asked a friend here what he thought so no disrespect intended, I am just interested in the general consensus.

When my razors start to pull a bit and need a touch up on my 12K Naniwa, is there any reason why I can't use my Trans Ark instead?

Norton used to be well respected. Then they took a nose dive in quality, I believe they moved their manuracturing to Mexico. However I have a brand new Norton 1k that recently came to be mine and it isn't bad. Seems a lot coarser than 1k to me, actually a little coarser than my 600 grit Chosera, but it cuts dreadfully fast and is a hard wearing stone, has no voids or inclusions that were common in recent decades with the brand. And without a doubt lots of guys use them. I haven't seen a new 4k or 8k so I have no personal experience with those. Keep in mind that the Nortons are rated on the ANSI scale, and most Japanese stones are on the JIS scale. There are a lot of junk stones out there but I don't regard their 1k as junk at all and probably the finer grits are okay, too.

I do think highly of the Naniwa 12k SuperStone. I actually have a full set of them from 1k to 12k. The 1k is getting pretty thin, actually, so I got a Chosera to do the heavy lifting with at that grit. The only one I don't really like is the 3k which seems to glaze very quickly and also to load up with swarf. But the 12k is a jewel and works as good as lapping film but is more confenient than film once it is lapped.

Now I do NOT like combo stones. The problem with combination stones is that they usually swell or shrink a little depending on water content. Even the non-soakers still soak up a little water. Being of different densities and textures, they naturally do not swell or shrink at the same rate. But glued together, they can't do this independantly. So the combo stone is prone to warping. The effect is usually very small but if you want to see an extreme, have a look at the 1k/6k King combo stone. I had one and it literally split apart from the unequal expansion. This probably won't happen to your Norton combo, but a more subtle problem may set in. When you lap a stone flat when it is warped one way, and then warps the other way, you are no longer flat. And vice versa. Some would say that this is nitpicling and nerdy and really insignificant thing to worry about, but it's still a thing. But you got what you got. So what I'm saying is if you soak, then lap when they have soaked. If you don't soak, then don't lap them soaked. A quick exploratory pass on the sandpaper will tell you if it is flat RIGHT NOW.

A very well burnished arkie will behave like a slightly finer stone than the 12k, as often as not. But it is really really slow. Trying to speed it up with more pressure is a bad idea. So if you genuinely like shaving off the Arkie, then hit the 12k Nanny first and then do your couple hundred or whatever laps on the ark. You will save time and still have an Arkansas finish.

Now if you use the balsa progression, you won't be able to tell the arkie honed razor from one not honed on the arkie. It will be a BALSA edge.

Yes, a diamond plate does smooth out when it is broken in properly.