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  1. #41
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    I have researched this before I decided to convex some stones. It isn't only the Germans who convex their stones. In the 1800, NY razor manufacturers also used convex stones. I assume they got the idea from the Germans. Since I have both flat and convex stones, I think my opinion should be more valid than those who have not tried BOTH. My results, depending on the razor's steel is as follows. On medium stones 6k-8k naturals, the speed to hone the razor is drastically improved. I also find the edge to be shave ready faster than on a flat at the same amount of laps. When I moved up to 12k-15k and Ark Surgical black and translucent, again, less laps and a much finer edge. The shave is also smoother. Now the negative, if you want a real workout, try convexing an Ark. It took me a week of 2 hours a day to finally get the stones convex. My observation is that when the stone is convex, the razor's edge seems to stay on the stone better than flat. This may be the way I hone, but I suggest if you really want to find out if this has merit, send Jarrod a razor to hone and make your own intelligent observation. Another observation, I tried Jarrod's suggestion and laid a strop on my convex stone to see what would happen. Amazing edge, smooth, irritation free results. I am sure having the strop on such a hard surface is a major reason but the results are better.
    Last edited by jkatzman; 06-08-2021 at 08:02 PM.

  2. #42
    Senior Member blabbermouth Kees's Avatar
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    What happened to the convex hones? Only cupped ones on the bay.
    Euclid440 and outback like this.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkatzman View Post
    I have researched this before I decided to convex some stones. It isn't only the Germans who convex their stones. In the 1800, NY razor manufacturers also used convex stones. I assume they got the idea from the Germans. Since I have both flat and convex stones, I think my opinion should be more valid than those who have not tried BOTH. My results, depending on the razor's steel is as follows. On medium stones 6k-8k naturals, the speed to hone the razor is drastically improved. I also find the edge to be shave ready faster than on a flat at the same amount of laps. When I moved up to 12k-15k and Ark Surgical black and translucent, again, less laps and a much finer edge. The shave is also smoother. Now the negative, if you want a real workout, try convexing an Ark. It took me a week of 2 hours a day to finally get the stones convex. My observation is that when the stone is convex, the razor's edge seems to stay on the stone better than flat. This may be the way I hone, but I suggest if you really want to find out if this has merit, send Jarrod a razor to hone and make your own intelligent observation. Another observation, I tried Jarrod's suggestion and laid a strop on my convex stone to see what would happen. Amazing edge, smooth, irritation free results. I am sure having the strop on such a hard surface is a major reason but the results are better.
    My honing time is not long, my edges are sharp and smooth. And i would rather do nothing than spend 14 hours shaping a stone. Are you sure I need this thing? LOL. I dont like arkie edges. Tried them years ago. I have an sb and a washita. Given to me for free by a neighbor. Not knocking them now, to each their own. Started lapping. Spend about 4 minutes lapping and then judging by what I had left (an hour just to get flat)I boxed them up and theyre wherever I left them about 6 or 7 years ago. There are so many ways to do this. And it always comes down to "you have to try it". No thanks!
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  4. #44
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Stropping any bevel, the leather compresses to polish the bevel. Why would you need to polish the whole bevel anyway, if the edge does all the cutting.

    On a flat or convex bevel, you must polish the bevel to polish the edge, the goal is not to polish the bevel.
    rolodave and Bill31521 like this.

  5. #45
    Senior Member TristanLudlow's Avatar
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    Nothing about convex hones is better than regular straight hones to me.
    Faster, sure, a shortcut sure; better, not to me.

    They're also a PITA to create and to maintain; for that alone I find them worthless folklore.

    Instead of going to all the trouble of convex hones, you might as wel add another layer of tape to create a micro-bevel, same results, much easier and your stones are still flat, win-win.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Steve56's Avatar
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    I’ve not stopped in in this thread lately, but I’ll contribute that the Japanese have used domed stones for centuries shaping katana, and more recently to re-grind single bevel kitchen knives when they wear down to thin the steel at the edge. These stones aren’t convexed side to side. I think that this is exactly what Glen is talking about. Image below.

    Once I also re-ground the omote on a worn kamisori using sandpaper wrapped around a bottle of the approximate size - that was effectively the same thing that the French author seemed to be writing about.

    As far as thinning the bevel itself, the amount of thinning over the diameter of a hair is essentially zero - all the steel more than a hair’s width behind the edge isn’t cutting anything, it’s just supporting the hair’s width of steel in front of it right?
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  7. #47
    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkatzman View Post
    Since I have both flat and convex stones, I think my opinion should be more valid than those who have not tried BOTH. .

    I am sorry but what makes you think, some of us haven't tried it ???

    Hell I have even tried using simple Crock Sticks too, so far with experienced hands there isn't one system I haven't been able to make work

    The answer is,,, there is no advantage over flat hones, honing proficiency isn't in systems it is in the hands..

    Nothing replaces time on the hones, or "The more you hone the better you get"

    I also love when people say "Faster / Easier" we see exactly what easier and faster looks like from Dovo

    Sorry but if it was easier, faster, better, those of us that hone professionally would be all over it...


    But Hey, if it works for you and you like it go for it
    "No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
    Very Respectfully - Glen

    Proprietor - GemStar Custom Razors Honing/Restores/Regrinds Website

  8. #48
    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kees View Post
    What happened to the convex hones? Only cupped ones on the bay.

    There is that

    Also I haven't seen a recommendation about it in any of the Barber's Manuals, when we have seen other recommendations on honing.
    Bill31521 likes this.
    "No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
    Very Respectfully - Glen

    Proprietor - GemStar Custom Razors Honing/Restores/Regrinds Website

  9. #49
    Senior Member TristanLudlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve56 View Post
    the Japanese have used domed stones for centuries shaping katana, and more recently to re-grind single bevel kitchen knives when they wear down to thin the steel at the edge.
    True,

    I can understand the use of convex stones.

    Can concur that when honing my Katanas with flat stones, some convexity to them would make it easier to hone the edge and keep the rest of the blade off the stones. But of course we're talking about something entirely different here.

    I don't mind convex hones at all, it's a manual grinding wheel and has many useful uses.

    It's just that razors have evolved to be what they are with a specific geometry built in it. It wouldn't NEED to take a convex hone to hone one.
    I'm not saying you can't use one, because it will work. And you'll probably get good results.

    But a well made razor, regardless of its grind, should hone up well on a flat stone no matter what.
    Many razors aren't made to the highest degree and nothing is perfect. So alternative methods come into play, whatever solves the problem is fine.

    Even my scythe stones are slightly convex and their blades also have a spine. It helps with what it's supposed to do, along with peening.
    But of course I'm not shaving with them I could, but it's not comfortable.

    That's why to me the important factor is that your razor has a good shaving bevel angle, which varies quite a bit though.
    But that makes sure it shaves how it is supposed to, close, comfortable, very keen.
    You don't want to mess that angle up so bad your razor shaves badly; because there are upper and lower angle limits to having a good shaving razor.

    I just see a convex stone to add more problems than it solves, for razors.
    Or it 'solves' problems that shouldn't be there.

    Anything will work, but that's not saying much of course.
    I'm sticking to flat stones for my razors though.
    Last edited by TristanLudlow; 06-09-2021 at 04:51 PM.

  10. #50
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    How many ways is there to hone? Hundreds of ways. They all work. Pick one, learn to nail it every time, then try everything and anything. This convex stone talk is nothing more than an attempt to sell "special magical stones and diamond lapping plates". End of story. How often do you see someone posting that they discovered the holy grail! LOL. It happens once in a while. "But you must try it". Which involves an absurd amount of time to shape the stone (14 hours? good luck with that) OR for the low low price of whatever one can be had! And we even have the matching lapping plate to go! I can have it detailed and out the door in an hour! This is the last one so you better grab it! Its the last car on the lot! Same ole same ole. Someone mentioned tape. And thats about the size of it. Wait a minute? The tape changed the angle etc MORE than this stone. And end of the day it means nothing. Your razors dont shave well? THEN YOU MUST COME TO MY SEMINAR! LOL.
    gssixgun and JoeSomebody like this.

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