Thread: coticule help

"Although slurry has absolute wonderful and impressive capabilities."

On a great coticule - yes, making it versatile. On a lesser grade, no. This depending on what you want from it.
If you are trying to finish on a lesser stone,even if you use oil to finish, you will be set so far back using slurry that your base stone will never get you to where you want to be in terms of finish. Slurry can be very detrimental to the end result.

If you are only using your lesser coti for low to mid work - sure. It could move you along using a natural stone.

I had watched the video and what I saw from a surface coating standpoint was actually the glue being applied to mate stones, not a surface treatment at all (it was dark in color). I would have to watch again.

The use of oil vs water can be Regional it seems. Oil being used much less in general.
As you stated it can make a larger difference in lesser stones, much less so (indistinguishable) in very fine coti's.

Originally Posted by stoneandstrop

I had watched the video and what I saw from a surface coating standpoint was actually the glue being applied to mate stones, not a surface treatment at all (it was dark in color). I would have to watch again.

The use of oil vs water can be Regional it seems. Oil being used much less in general.
As you stated it can make a larger difference in lesser stones, much less so (indistinguishable) in very fine coti's.

True, Coticules can be all over the place. The good ones are fantastic. Some of my fast ones will set a bevel on x-strokes with only water rather quickly, whilst still being very fine. Insane.

In the video one part was about gluing, the other part was about melting resin into the the surface and then they continued to polish it further (they called em second grade stones)
I have been using oil on Coticules they would call second grade with fantastic results. It most definitely upped the keenness.

On my really good stones, water seems to give really good results, I will soon try oil vs water on them.

I do notice that when I come off a Dilucot and Unicot to plain water my Coticule feels much much better on plain water.

When I purely use it without any slurry or slurry stone rubbing, it feels different and results slightly differ, there oil really helps a lot for me.

But there's a lot YMMV thing with these stones.

I indeed forgot how a very slow stone acted on slurry, I only have extremely fast ones left and they're a hoot. So easy, so fast.
Amazing rocks in any case.
But a ton of experimenting and finding out.

I shaved with the Taylor finished on my coti with oil. No question the edge was keener with oil than without, but honestly, I couldn’t tell the difference in the shave or the face feel afterwards.

Given the mess the oil creates that has to be cleaned up, I think I’ll stick with water for this particular coticule.

That's some interesting information Tristan. I've wondered why some of the old stones I've found have a very smooth finish until I lap them. (i might add that i've really only have around 4 of them) Where would be a good start in prepping a stone to make it smoother?

Originally Posted by DZEC

I shaved with the Taylor finished on my coti with oil. No question the edge was keener with oil than without, but honestly, I couldn’t tell the difference in the shave or the face feel afterwards.

Given the mess the oil creates that has to be cleaned up, I think I’ll stick with water for this particular coticule.

Is it a vintage Coti or do you know the vein?
Many thanks for sharing your findings.

I think also another reason many used oil in the past, was because there was no running water and water from wells or other sources wasn't always the purest and contained contaminants like sand and dirt etc.

Originally Posted by tintin

That's some interesting information Tristan. I've wondered why some of the old stones I've found have a very smooth finish until I lap them. (i might add that i've really only have around 4 of them) Where would be a good start in prepping a stone to make it smoother?

I would just rub them with a Coticule or BBW stone, if you've lapped them with sandpaper or diamond stone, etc.
Or just saturate them with oil, the stone isn't very porous so oil will only fill the very top layer of the stone and not absorb it deeply
Or you could circles or half strokes with a razor on a dry stone, it'll round over the garnets na bit and glaze it / fill it with metal swarf
Just using them will loosen the old garnets

"When I purely use it without any slurry or slurry stone rubbing, it feels different and results slightly differ, there oil really helps a lot for me."


At what point are you transitioning to the coti?
To test for me - after a nice 8k edge and then water only. My best stones give unbelievable edges in 1-2 hundred strokes (razor dependent)
They are not overly fast nor painfully slow either but man they leave a nice edge visually and closeness/feel.

Razors are funny. I just redid two this morning. I usually go back to 3k unless there are chips or something but this time I thought I would see from 8k. The edges were in good shape so...
Barbas Duras looked 8k all day long after 30 strokes on the 8k.
Le Grelot, 30, nothing, 60, nothing, really no difference. Had to go back to 5k and 50 from there then 8k then the coti.
The Filly holds an edge great too. Easy honing and long lasting edge. For me thats what makes Filly's great!

Sorry for the sidetrack!

Originally Posted by stoneandstrop

At what point are you transitioning to the coti?

Usually If I need some chip repair or if the bevel needs decent work, I got to my Naniwa pro 1K, then 3K, the 5K is optional and I don't have any synthetics beyond it; after that I usually go to a coti or bbw with slurry. Most of the time I go to the Coti with slurry, couple dilutions and finish off plain water, do quite a good amount of strokes on water too.

If I'm not in a synthetic mood, and the bevel isn't that far off, I do everything on the Coticule. My Les Lat is a pretty fast bevel setter though. I might kill the edge lightly coming off of the 1K-3K combo, but that's not really a true new bevel set, so it's quickly re-set on some medium thick slurry.

For touch ups I don't go back to any synthetic though, I go to my Coti on water and after that I usually finish on oil.
I do the HHT coming off of water once that's good I go to oil and I know I'm done.
I don't use any Coticules that have slow refinement on water anymore though, mine range from medium-slow to medium-fast I notice; my really slow one isn't that great a finisher in all honesty, I don't find it keen enough. My La Veinette and my Les Lat are really good though, they're the only veins I have left. Not that I had a huge collection, but they're efficient. I have one Latneuses and three Veinettes. They are natural combos though, I have experimented a lot with the Coti and BBW sides, and the Yellow Coticule always comes out on top for shaving, always smoother and super skin friendly. The Coticule is the only stone that allows me to shave daily without any irritation or cuts and nicks or weepers.


In regards to the OP's problem.
If I were to start over honing, I'd get a full synthetic progression, make sure the bevel is set (so important) finish the entire synthetic progression and indeed as suggested above finish on A Coticule with just water. Slurry is too confusing if you're new to Coticules.
More importantly you need a good Coticule and need to know how your Coticule reacts and works.
OP, if you want to share a picture of your stone? That might help. I will say that my La Grise or other very slow stones did very little for my personal taste.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

This thread is the reason I went the synthetic route and have never looked back.

But where's the charm in synthetics? I find using natural stones have that special charm that can't be found in synthetics.

A few years ago, I requested a standard coti for razors directly from Ardennes. I asked specifically for a fast cutter. They sent me a pinkish La Dressante and told me to use it without slurry (which I found interesting). Using it with water only, leaves a pretty skin-friendly edge. I then up the edge to another level by using the hybrid side of my Les Lat with soapy water to get an Ark level of sharpness but with the coti feel and skin friendliness.

Originally Posted by Pedigree

But where's the charm in synthetics? I find using natural stones have that special charm that can't be found in synthetics.

Amen brother. My sentiments exactly. Life should be a challenge. It's what keeps us sharp.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Amen brother. My sentiments exactly. Life should be a challenge. It's what keeps us sharp.

Yes but we have to learn the stone weather it is synthetic or not.

did I use the right weather? LOL