Thread: A compendium of hones and their grits

What would be really helpful would be just a simple list with the stones in order:

( I edited out the list I had here and am attaching a Jpeg of the word doc. The word doc was too large to attach).

This is my seat of the pants estimate based on my experience and what is written here, since I have never used a Spyderco stone.

It would be cool if others could fill in stones they have experience with, fitting it into the table between others they have used. I think you need to have used a stone to be able to get it in the right place here.

Over time, we could keep this up and get comments from people to improve the accuracy of it. I think this would be the single greatest service we could offer to people learning to hone.


I could put this in a Microsoft Word Table if people like. For now, we should gather the raw data.

Just my $.02 worth.

Paul

Great thread, as some one just starting this is giving me some great info. Does any one have an idea where a carborundum hone would go on the list? I know that someone (possibly item description on eBay) said it was about 7k.

Actually, there is a pretty decent variety of grits for carborundum stones. Home Depot sells them in 100, 200, 400, and I believe 800, but not much higher.

I also have a little carborundum barber hone, I have no idea the grit, but I would place it somewhere in the area of 8,000.

And I have a tiny ancient arkansas stone that must be up around 6k or 8k but no way to identify it. I would exclude these kinds of outliers because people can't purchase them.

My idea here is to list readily available (and identifiable) stone...things someone wanting to hone can go and purchase, to fill a gap in their grinding.

If you want to maintain the list in Word, then I suggest you convert it to a PDF and attach it. (There are many ways to convert it PDF... primopdf is the one I use and it's free.)

Alternatively, you can get good alignment if you post by selecting a font such as courier new and then invoke the "code" bbcode. EG,

Code:

Name          Adjusted      Cost-US $    Cutting Speed     Hardness
             Norton Grit
DMT Black      200           33.00            Fast          Hard
DMT Blue       325           33.00            Fast          Hard
DMT Red        600           33.00            Fast          Hard
DMT Green     1200           33.00            Fast          Hard
King 1200     1200           35.00            Fast          Soft
Bester 2000   1200           32.00            Fast          Medium
Spyderco Med  3000           ?                Ultra Fast    ?
Norton 4K     4000           40.00            Slow          Soft
King 6000     6000           35.00            Medium        Soft
Belgian Blue  5000-6000      40.00            Slow          Hard
Norton 8K     8000           50.00            Medium        Soft
King 8000     8000           35.00            Fast          Soft
Spyderco Fine 8000           ?                Fast
DMT 3 Micron  8000           79.00            Fast          Hard
Kitayama      1OK -12K       98.00            Medium        Soft Finish

I think this idea has merit and is a good, general guide. I do have to say that comparing grits between different types of stones is very difficult. The problem is not just that the company gives a rating for the stone based on mesh size of the particles that have been baked into the stone but that different materials cut steel differently. A monocrystalline diamond is much more aggressive than a garnet which is a crystal that cleaves readily to present new, sharp edges at the surface of the stone. The silica in an Escher cuts very differently from the silica in an Arkansas stone. On top of it all, in artificial stones like Nortons, Kings, Shaptons, etc., there is a binder which gloms the abrasive particles together in clumps that are bigger than the mesh size of the particles which went into the stone in the first place.

I think we all have different ideas about what a "slow" cutter is vs. a "fast" cutter. To me, the belgian blue cuts steel fast. It's much faster than an Arkansas which I have always found to be slow. The DMT stones cut steel really fast.

This is all fairly relative and subjective data. As I don't see belgian coticules listed below I'm wondering why that is and why they have not been included. They have been the stone of choice for barbers for several hundred years. They finish a razor quickly and are often the only hone used by barbers. I have customers who are barbers on several continents and they won't use anything else. I have had dozens of customers who have tried lots of stones and settle on the coticules. Am I missing something here?

Originally Posted by Howard

Am I missing something here?

No, other than perhaps that "the list" is a work in progress. Toolarts us assembling the information that people have contributed. If you have info/corrections to add re: blue's (or any others), please feel fee to chime in and post the writeups and/or data.

Yes Howard, you are. Here are the sentences you missed from my posting:

"It would be cool if others could fill in stones they have experience with, fitting it into the table between others they have used. I think you need to have used a stone to be able to get it in the right place here. "

"Over time, we could keep this up and get comments from people to improve the accuracy of it. I think this would be the single greatest service we could offer to people learning to hone."



To me it is clear that some stones cut faster than others, and this can be observed by use.

It is also clear to me that some stones are finer than others, and this can be observed by use.

This list does not have to be scientificaly exact--rather--it is a compendium of all of our experience with the stones--to help others get closer to what they need than just guessing and buying the wrong stone.

The information can also be refined by viewers asking follow-up questions here.

I hope this helps explain it.

Paul

Another reply because am finding if my reply is too long to fit a computer screen, people don't read it all.

I volunteer to manage this list.

I do not want this list to be MY opinion, but rather a compendium of all our experience (per the original post).

If someone else wants to manage it, they are welcome to, also--just reply here or send me a PM and I will defer.

I think it needs to be done.

Paul

My sailboat is 100 yards from The Japan Woodworker in Alameda.

Next time I am there, I will go over to the Japan Woodworker and tell them about this project.

I think they might be able to give me some information regarding relative grits of at least the Japanese waterstones and the DMT stones which they carry.

I can also get more accurate pricing.

This may be interesting.


Paul

Two things- seems to me that the DMT prices listed are a little low. I got my D8C for $35 plus $11 shipping. I have seen them for sale for $55 without shipping included though. Also, despite Howard not liking the stone, shouldn't we throw the Chinese 12k on there? I love it as do most people I have ever heard talk about it. Specs would be Chinese 12k, 12k, $20-30, slow, hard.