Thread: New Escher hones

I have the $130 hone that you refer to in the advertisment.

It comes from this man in Germany.

MST - Müller Schleiftechnik

You need to select "Neue Produkte" on the left of the home page.

MST however only sell to agents and not direct to the public.

First let me say it is the best finishing hone I have ever used. It imparts a sharper edge than a yellow coticule and a much smoother edge. It works in and around the 10,000 to 14,000 grit level whilst a yellow coticule in my experience works in and around the 6000 to 10000 grit level, depending on with or without slurry etc.,

I totally disagree with the agents comments about not using it to follow a coticule.
This is exactly what I do. I bought it and tried it after using my coticue and was blown away with just how good it is. After you have finished with the coticule, the slurry on the Escher turns dark with the extra polishing this hone imparts. The hone with just water adds another level of polish.

I don't know what you mean by old eschers. This stone has been in the ground for centuries, how old do you want it to be. Just because something was mined fifty years ago doesn't make it better. Why should it?

As to color, it sounds from the descriptions on the internet sites that it varies from green to blue gray.
Mine, the larger hone is lightish green and the slurry is creamy green. It is softer than a coticule and a very dense material. It gives great feedback in use.

Anyway, you now know from somebody who actually owns and uses one that it is fantastic. It is also very reasonable in terms of price. They won't be around long it would appear if you believe what MST say on their web site. Anyway, mine is a keeper as they say. It doesn't however replace the yellow Coticule, it takes off from where the coticule finishes.

The other thing, is that many are truly satisfied with a coticule followed by chromium oxide and then a strop. In fact I find that process to be perfectly adequate. So you could say that the escher is totally unnecessary. For me however it is another level of refinement before hitting the chromium oxide. But boy the edges are a shiny mirror finish and feel no sharper but oh so smooth.

Yes age does matter because the rock the eschers are mined from come from a vein and as the vein is played out the quality of the material begins to degrade so the older stuff is better. Same as the Japanese stones mined many years ago which are better than what is being produced today.

Personally, I have a coticule and a vintage escher and I find the two to be about equal. There are some razors that seem to prefer one over the other but I would never use one then the other. My coticule is definitely at about a 12K. The blue belgian is closer to 6k

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Same as the Japanese stones mined many years ago which are better than what is being produced today.

Japanese mines have been closed for 40+ years, AFAIK, at this point in time there are no talks of reopening any of them.

Originally Posted by English

Anyway, you now know from somebody who actually owns and uses one that it is fantastic. It is also very reasonable in terms of price.

Many of us have used these stones. I've had close to 10 thuringian stones (Including Mueler) and I've used every single one of them. There are differences and I would say that I personally prefer my vintage Eschers (meaning the only thing that it means - mined and selected by Escher & Co), as I feel they are a bit finer.

Indeed when a stone is being mined is irrelevant to how it cuts, yet whether you've depleted the best vein 60 years ago, or you're yet to discover it can be debated ad infinitum with little gain.

My understanding is that the mines are currently defunct and the stones come from blocks which were mined over 50 years ago and are now only being cut to smaller pieces. Again it this is true, whether those blocks were not cut back then because they were of lesser quality, or just because the process from mining to selling is actually a whole pipeline, that can be a whole other fruitless discussion.

Based on my very limited experience (10 or so coticules and as many thuringians) and my conversations with other members the only definitive test is actually trying out the stone. I am not going to be speculating on grits as the only fixed grit stones I've used are DMTEF and Norton 4/8k, but I very much like the edge off a coticule and the one off an escher is comparable and sometimes I may like it silghtly better. However I am limited not by the stones but by my honing skills and I am pretty certain the same is true for most people here.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

There was some discussion here about these a little while ago.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...9-eschers.html

James.

James,
Thanks for that link. The quest continues it seems :-)


Jim E.

Originally Posted by CaptMdnght

Hello everyone. Its been awhile since i have posted. I was wondering if anyone has tried the new Escher-thurigen hones offered by Escher Water Hone - Thuringian Sharpening Stone . If so, how do they compare with the older Eschers?


Regards,
Jim E.

Very strange... I did a search on escher stones to purchase and this vendor showed up in 3 of the searches, including this thread.

I placed an order online, the site responds that my transaction has been completed and they sent a receipt to my email... I waited about 2 minutes, no email, so I tried to print the invoice screen using their link and the screen disappeared. I called the number, expecting to get an answering machine and woke a man up. I had to ask three times if it was "Timber Tools" and he finally said "What... oh yeah this is Timber Tools."

I've already called my bank to report the incident and potential ??? information gathering ??? Thank goodness the account is not linked to any important source of funds.
It may be nothing, but IMHO the flags are there for a potential scam.

For what it's worth, I've known Gary from TimberTools for many years and he knows - through long experience - both belgian stones and eschers. On his site he differentiates between higher grade belgians and lower grade belgians. This is key, in my opinion, to understanding what he's saying about not following a high grade belgian with an escher. There is, I have found, a big difference between standard grade coticules and Select grade. I don't know if it's true about all of the newly named coticules from particular veins but there are differences between standard grade and select grade that go beyond cosmetics. I'd like to hear Gary weigh in on in this as, like me, he's handled hundreds of coticules.

I also have a number of eschers in my study collection ranging from the blue-green ones to the yellow-green. I don't think an escher following a Select coticule will get you anything measurable in the way of results on your face. The big difference, as I see it, is the difference between quartz crystals and garnet crystals. The structure at the micro level shows up as differences at the macro level. Tiny cleaved corners off of a rhombic dodecahedral garnet (nothing cleaves like a garnet!) in a slurry will give a smoother cutting edge than hexagonal, long c-axis quartz crystals. That's what I've found.

The differences we're talking about here are probably overshadowed though by factors like differences in the wiriness of your beard and shave preparation. A quality escher and a quality coticule are excellent finishers when used correctly.

To make matters a bit more complicated, I find that Shaptons in the 16k to 30k range will finish a razor off even better! I know that may sound like heresy to some but let me assure you I have not lost my love of natural stones and still use a combo coticule on my razor and it's still in my medicine cabinet and used on my razor every week. However, when playing with a new razor, I rehab with the Shaptons because it's quick, organized, and gives me consistent and reliable results every time.

Great posting Gugi. I think there's another factor at play as well which is the steel and its heat treat. We're not all using the same razors and many are reporting different results. I don't doubt that at all! You mention the differences to be had by honing practice as well and that's also a huge factor in getting the best results possible from any stone on any particular face.

SkyDiver, that webpage is a scam imo but not in the way you think. They do really sell the stones they offer, but they're not original Eschers. Fore more info just read all the posts in this thread and the threads linked.

Howard, I'm pretty sure with lower grade Belgians they mean BBWs, less garnets of bigger size.

Originally Posted by Piet

SkyDiver, that webpage is a scam imo but not in the way you think. They do really sell the stones they offer, but they're not original Eschers. Fore more info just read all the posts in this thread and the threads linked.

Well the transaction went through and the "Original Thuringer Wasserabziehstein - Beste Qualitat" arrived today.

I agree, in that I am not impressed with the quality for the price, but I have not tried it yet either. Only one side is smooth and the other has 3 ridged steps.