Thread: Chinese 12k question (s)

I do not own a Chinese 12k, I started with the spyderco set and frankly, its a little hard to move away from something that works.

That said, the spyderco UF is $40. The Chinese 12k is $30. Come on now...besides from the **** of a time lapping the UF is, the edge is finer and its only $10 more. I don't see the point in the 12k.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I don't own a 12k, I can't see stepping down in grit for a stone that allegedly takes forever to get a polish with.

edti: Plus! You don't have to lap it ever again.

I've owned & used two of the Chinese 12 k's for about a year and found them identical in use. 2nd one was just smaller than the first house brick size one I bought.

Extremely slow. 100 + passes, closer to 200 but slurry helps a little. I used to use a DMTC for slurry but used to lap on a sheet of glass with fine grit Auto valve grinding paste (water based). Pretty quick to lap that way.
Stiction is a problem on wedges with large bevels, as Sham said blade sticks & skips.
Really great edges for such a cheap hone but hell I'm glad I just got an Escher. Final polish gets done now in a quarter the number of strokes. I've put over 20 razors thru eBay this year & my last hone job was 8 or so razors. I can tell you I was sweating on that Escher to arrive. The China 12's give good results but are not time & energy efficient.

I think the grit size is a bit overrated.
If you compare this stone on a piece of pristine CD or whatever else Acryl
with a BM Slate 6000 (JIS)
its effect is about similar.
Done it here

I thought I'd chime in since I've used these things before. I've actually used two different ones; JoeD's 8x3 and my smaller one (don't remember the size). I decided to get mine after shaving with Joe's blades that came off his 12K, so that right there should tell you something (about the stone, about Joe's honing, or both).

Anyway, my first experience using the Chinese 12K was at Joe's place. He pulled out a Red Imp 132 that had just come off a Norton 8K and turned me loose. The hone had been soaked, and I was using water with a little bit of dish soap to keep the hone surface wet. I didn't have any issues with sticking, and the blade ran so smoothly over the surface. I don't really know how many laps I did, but it couldn't have been more than one hundred. At Joe's suggestion, I then did the HHT, and hairs were popping. Normally the HHT doesn't impress me, but to go from an 8K to popping without stropping... well I find that impressive.

I've also shaved with a number of blades off the 12K (Joe's and now some of mine), and the blades are consistently sharp. I can definitely feel the difference between blades off my coticule and blades off the 12K. The bevel is also noticeably smoother, to the naked eye and with magnification (a hand-held loupe, don't know the actual magnification but JoeD or CarrieM).

So, to answer the questions that have been posed:

I think the Chinese 12K is a great hone for both its ability to polish and edge and for its price. I also really like the size of the smaller one; I can hand hold it quite easily, and, if turned on its side, I have a one inch wide surface (which could be great for warped or other tricky blades).

I lapped my Chinese 12K with a DMTC, and after that I gave her a good rub-down with a lapped Swaty. I was actually surprised at how quickly the Swaty cut the 12K. Using the Swaty might not have been necessary, but it took out some scratches left by the DMT (it wasn't fully broken in), and I would assume it smoothed out the surface as well.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

What are most of you using to lap this stone, I would assume a DMT 325....
and are there differences between the stones, if you have used more than one... Yes I realize they are naturals so obviously there are going to be slight variations...

The Chinese hone was the reason I broke down and bought a DMT8XX, 120 grit, after spending about 30 hours lapping mine with a fairly new DMT8C, 325 grit. Aside from taking way too long, the lapping dramatically reduced the cutting performance of my DMT8C. It was this experience that leads me to repeatedly post reminders in this forum that DMT's recommendation is that only the DMT8XX is appropriate for hone lapping.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I've compared honing with and without pre-soaking. I haven't found it to make any difference. Unlike waterstones, which need to be soaked in order to keep the hone surface wet, the Chinese hone draws the water in so very slowly that it just really makes no difference. Pre-soaked or not, the hone surface remains wet long enough to get in your 100 strokes.

That's really good to know. I also hate having to pre-soak stones (especially finishers).

To be honest it irritates me that a stone I paid twenty bucks for is so good. I paid wayyyy more for the Eschers and yes they are "better" in a way but I don't know if they are a couple of hundred dollars better. The hell of it is knowing what I know now I would do it again. I guess that is the definition of HAD.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

To be honest it irritates me that a stone I paid twenty bucks for is so good

That perfectly sums up the quandary of the quarry of the Guangxi!

Originally Posted by Utopian

I've compared honing with and without pre-soaking. I haven't found it to make any difference. Unlike waterstones, which need to be soaked in order to keep the hone surface wet, the Chinese hone draws the water in so very slowly that it just really makes no difference. Pre-soaked or not, the hone surface remains wet long enough to get in your 100 strokes.

You are correct. I don't know why I soak it, other than it say's too. I posted once before about cutting one up with my wet saw after soaking. No water penetrated the stone. I am healed....

Originally Posted by Utopian

The Chinese hone was the reason I broke down and bought a DMT8XX, 120 grit, after spending about 30 hours lapping mine with a fairly new DMT8C, 325 grit. Aside from taking way too long, the lapping dramatically reduced the cutting performance of my DMT8C. It was this experience that leads me to repeatedly post reminders in this forum that DMT's recommendation is that only the DMT8XX is appropriate for hone lapping.

I just got a D8XX, wonderful tool for lapping. I do lots of lapping. I destroyed my D8C which was a great hone, it's now about a D8F, maybe. It's BBS. Thanks for your earlier recommendation....