Thread: BBW / Coticule / Naniwa 12 K combo

I currently use the following combo with decent success but am looking for a bit more keenness:

bbw w/ slurry
bbw w /water
coticule w/water
strop

anyone use the same combo but introduce a naniwa 12 K after the coticule?

thanks

Yes, I have. I just bought the Naniwa 12k off Don and Lynn. I have many hones, but my go to hones are my Coti's and BBW's. I use pastes as well. After the Coti, I'd normally use my Cro2 paste and/or Diamond pastes. They're great for adding keeness to your blade too, you may want to check them out. I recently used the Naniwa 12k after my BBW and Coti. I normally do maybe 15 passes w/slurry, water down, and do about 10 more, then maybe 5 with just water, that's with the BBW and Coti. I did 15 passes with water on the Naniwa 12k. My blade was an Old Puma 90 that's a problem blade. It's one of those blades that no matter what I do, it's just not keen enough, know what I mean.
It shaves, but it's not, "WOW".....Well, after the Naniwa 12k, I noticed an improved result. I was very happy with myself. I remember coming out after shaving and telling my girlfriend who didn't seem to appreciate my accomplishment or share my enthusiasim. Ahh, what do they know anyway...Just kidding Ladies....Now, that's me and my stones. I have many Coti's, no two are alike, I don't know what you have, and your results may vary. But, I would give the Naniwa's a big thumbs up.....

P.S. Try do 10-15 passes w/slurry on your coticule too, then water it down, do 5 more, then 10 with just water. I'm assuming your coticule is Select Grade, Medium Soft? Where did you get it?

Also, Try your BBW slurry stone on your Coticule for more cutting power. Sometimes, I'll do 15 passes with a BBW slurry on my coticule.

Originally Posted by gags

I currently use the following combo with decent success but am looking for a bit more keenness:

bbw w/ slurry
bbw w /water
coticule w/water
strop

anyone use the same combo but introduce a naniwa 12 K after the coticule?

thanks

I never found much benefit from using the BBW with water only. If it does anything, it will be polishing, but it won't push the keenness of your edge. After the Coticule with slurry, I recommend trying the BBW with a light slurry. In most cases that leaves a keener edge than slurry on a Coticule.
I often go to a Naniwa Chosera 10K at that point. It is a very reliable hone to get more keenness. I don't own the Naniwa Superstone 12K, but I read that it is excellent for razor use, so I would expect that it could refine your edge after the Blue with slurry.

I would try shaving right off the 12K. It should give you a very close, effortless shave.
Before the next shave, add about 20 very light laps on your Coticule with only water (+a drop of dishwashing soap). I perfer the edge finished off a Coticule, but that's a personal preference. You can find out for yourself.

Best regards,
Bart.

I used to use your setup, but recently added a C12K. Some blades feel much better of the 12K, others were already taking great edges off the coticule. It seems some blades like different stones, and you'll have to play around. With such cheap 12K's available, there's no reason not to.

thanks for the feedback gang. I started shaving with a str8 about 6 month ago and got bitten by the bud. went from one razor to 11, from norton combo to belgians and shaptons. I can't tell you how helpful this site has been in reducing the learning curve. BBS shave are now a regularity for me. Naturally there's alot of info floating around on all the different forums hear but its like golf. You have to take what works for you specifically and go with it.

Zib, to answer your question I got my coticule (8X2) from bestsharpeningstones..com. It ran about $128. The BBW was 8X2 as well and cost $68. Don't know what grade they are but they seem to do the job although these are the first belgians I've been exposed to.

The reason I posed the whole question about the Naniwa is that I had a strange experience using it after the coticule with water. The Naniwa seemed to make my blade less keen. Maybe first time user error.

The 3 new razors I'm trying to get extra keen are two 1/4 grind grelots (from Rasurpur) and a wacker 1/4 grind that I just got from Shaving Shop. Once you get that feel of a blade sharpened by Lynn, that pretty much sets the standard for how I want the rest of my blades to feel. I want them to be comfortable and have them work for me instead of letting the blades force me to work to get a BBS

thanks again gang

Bart's correct about the BBW with water, it's probably around an 8k. You need the slurry to get it down to 4k. In any case, that's odd. It's possible you used too much pressure on your blade when you did the Naniwa. Coticules can actually be rated up to 10, maybe 12k, I'm sure Bart would know a bit more about this. Even so, I don't think the Naniwa would have dulled it. I'm not sure about that. You can test your coticule to see if it's hard, soft, or medium with your fingernail. Scratch it, If you see no mark, or bearly no mark, it's hard, if you see a nice scratch in it, it's soft. You need several to really get the feel of this test. In between that, is Medium...I import stones from Rob in Belgium. He gave me this info. Rich

thanks Zib...Its definitely a hard coti then. As far as the naniwa is concerned I'm going to give it another shot......still the coti does a nice job

I love them, They are my "Go to Hones" So, if yours is hard, it's a finisher for sure. Probably close to the Naniwa. I would recommend the slurry when you use your coti, then water. Pretty much what Bart say's. He's probably the most knowledgeable member when it comes to coticules, he even made a pilgrimage there, and posted a very nice log....+1 Bart......

thanks Zib. Bart, what would be the remain difference in performance between the soft, med and hard coti's.

Originally Posted by gags

thanks Zib. Bart, what would be the remain difference in performance between the soft, med and hard coti's.

I don't really know, Gags.

But I sure can confuse you a bit further...

The vast majority of Coticules will generate slurry when you rub them with another small piece of Coticule. This slurry turns them in relatively fast cutters, certainly for the kind of scratch pattern they leave.
When those Coticules are used with water only, they will be much slower, but excellent edge finishers.

Some Coticules, while honing on them with water, will slowly start to release slurry. If this becomes very apparent, this can interfere with the finishing. This behavior is connected somewhat to soft Coticules. For finishing they could possibly benefit from a constant stream of rinsing water. When used with slurry these are among the fastest Coticules, but also "regular" Coticules can be quite fast. There seems more variety in speed between Coticules than there is in finishing properties.

Some other Coticules have a hard time generating a good slurry. Those are always hard Coticules, but not all hard Coticules are poor slurry formers. These hones are not fast enough for doing bevel correction work on razors, but they're still excellent finishers. Whether they are better finishers, I can't really tell. I never found much difference in Coticules as far as finishing is concerned.

There are other differences in Coticules, smaller or bigger peculiarities, sometimes connected to the particular vain (or layer) they were harvested from. All layers carry distinct names, and are described in literature. Other differences are purely individual. I have suggested that Ardennes Coticule should carry a line of Coticules that come with a capabilities report, just as some sources for Japanese Natural hones do.

Best regards,
Bart.