Thread: More Tests with a Dragon's Tongue - no slurry

It confirmed for me that the DT is some level coarser than the Norton 8k. Cloudy yet still in the mirror realm is a good way to put it.

I agree with you about the DT IMO probably needing to be refreshed a bit more often than other hard stones around that grit range.

Chris L

I haven't used a dragon's tongue in a long time, so I decided to use it last night instead of a coticule in a progression that never fails me: 1k/3k Suehiro combo (water) > coticule (water only, no slurry > Welsh or Vermont purple slate (light machine oil).

The stone in question I ordered directly from Inigo Jones several years ago (i.e., well before shipping costs skyrocketed). It measures 2-1/2" x 8" and came with a dedicated slurry stone. Prior to use last night, I re-lapped it using 320x w/d sandpaper wet on a glass plate.

Normally, I never use a slurry with any stone, but with the dragon's tongue, it benefits as to emulsifying the water on the honing surface. So just a light slurry this time, not visible, just enough to arrive at a saliva-like consistency.

After a few circles or half-laps, I switched to several dozen light X-passes. The feel of the stone was fantastic, molten smooth not brittle (the latter of which a DT can feel like after it has glazed over and is only used with water). Scratch pattern, viewed with a 10x Hastings triplet loupe, showed a higher polish than off the 3k, with a few new errant scratches from the DT, perhaps from the slurry, although nothing damaging. Ended with a few dozen light X-passes on the DT used with water only before moving on to several dozen light X-passes on purple Vermont slate lapped to 600x and used with light machine oil.

Resultant bevel and edge looks very nice and the blade awaits tonight's shave.

In returning to the DT, I'm impressed. Looking at the surface later, after drying, I noticed that it had starting to mildly glaze over in places, perhaps where the slurry stone made contact with it. As mentioned in a post above, I would think that the surface would need to be refreshed from time to time (although with a lower grit IMO, more like 320x-400x) for upper mid-range work like this; for when it glazes over, it's character changes making it less effective (i.e., "finer," "burnished," etc.) and the result there is perhaps better served by a finer stone like purple slate lapped further.

Just a follow-up to say that the resultant shave was excellent!

I haven't used my DT much, it was smooth when i was given it. Reading this thread, most of which is from a while ago my interest has been piqued again.

I am going to lap it today and I have some questions.

Is it worthwhile to lap both sides to different "grit so to speak" and if it would be an idea, what grit/ coarseness/wetndry/sic do you suggest.
If it's only worth doing one side, what do you suggest i took that one to.

I will set a bevel on a 1K Naniwa ss, would it be an idea to go 3K Nani ss before the DT.

I want to finish with a Purple Lyn Mellynllyn because it is a better as a finisher than the DT from what I understand, so same questions.
One or two sided and grits or just one side and grits.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Originally Posted by STF

I haven't used my DT much, it was smooth when i was given it. Reading this thread, most of which is from a while ago my interest has been piqued again.

I am going to lap it today and I have some questions.

Is it worthwhile to lap both sides to different "grit so to speak" and if it would be an idea, what grit/ coarseness/wetndry/sic do you suggest.
If it's only worth doing one side, what do you suggest i took that one to.

I will set a bevel on a 1K Naniwa ss, would it be an idea to go 3K Nani ss before the DT.

I want to finish with a Purple Lyn Mellynllyn because it is a better as a finisher than the DT from what I understand, so same questions.
One or two sided and grits or just one side and grits.

Thanks for your suggestions.

You're welcome. My sense is that if you lap one side of a DT coarser, it will quickly smooth over from use unless re-lapped regularly. 320x was a happy medium for me, again used with water and a light slurry. If I wanted to play with a more two-sided effect, I suppose something like 220x on one side (used with water and a slurry) followed by 600x (used with water only on the other side) would be a good point of departure. I was only interested in using the DT as a bridge between the 3k synth and the purple slate (or the way I normally use a coticule with water only). Slurry was only there to emulsify the water and make it spread more easily on the surface of the stone (a little bit of added soap would achieve the same effect and might prevent errant scratches if the slurry was the reason for what I observed prior to finishing).

As for the purple slate afterwards, I normally use Welsh purple in the same way after a coticule. Surface lapped to 600x and used with light machine oil (Singer sewing machine oil in my case). The Vermont purple acts pretty much in the same way (I used it because the format was similar to my Inigo Jones dragon's tongue). After use with oil, what's nice with both slates is that they can be cleaned with a sponge and soapy dishwater to lift off the oil from the surface. Once dry, they can be packed away with the water stones with no fear of contamination.

OK, I just lapped my stones.

The Dragons Tongue is 280 one side and 600 the other (only had 280 or 400).

I lapped my Purple Lyn to 600 one side, 1200 the other side.

I'm going to do 3 sets of 100 lapps on each side/stone and rinse between each set, I don't know if I can create a bur with the slates but I'll watch for it anyway.

I'll use my USB scope to show pics of my progression. I'll start by killing the edge on my Kinfolks and then setting the bevel on a 1K Naniwa ss, I'll show the pic and then move onto the 280 side of the DT, pic of course and then the 600 side with the pic.

600 Purple Lyn then finish with the 1200, pics of course.

It'll be interesting, I just hope I didn't waste my time with the sic and wetndry.

Incidentally, I marked the sides with a red sharpy before I lapped and then did it a second time, I'll also mark the bevel with a sharpie. The spine I'll tape with Kapton so it's close to being without tape but still protected.

I'm all honed up and ready for a shave in the morning!

Bevel set on a Naniwa ss 1K.




300 on DT lapped to 280.



300 on DT other side lapped to 600.



300 on Purple Lyn 600.



300 other side of Purple Lyn 1200.



60 on Herringbone cotton.



Last but not least, 100 on Buffalo.



Here's hoping. I'll let ya know how it goes.

Update.
I had a 4 pass shave and I'm bbs.
To me the edge, although very sharp was harsh. I gave it 30 laps on a CrO Ox pasted leather strop and continued my shave.
Much better, still very sharp but smoother too.

I have to say that DT & Purple Lyn edges aren't my favourite but I've had worse shaves, I've had better too.

IMO the scratches left on the bevel are lart of the issue of harshness. They go all the way to the edge. That is where you want the scratches gone. More scratch at edge mean microscopic jaggedness. This is why when you stropped on crox is got better as you worked the scratches out of the edge more.
Experimenting with stones is fun and I played a bit myself. But I will stick to the synthetics. No extra thought involved. Lol. Nice pics BTW, Steve.

I agree that the pics are nice to see. Still, there seem to be a number of variables from one approach to another as described, 10x achromatic loupe for viewing included.

My shave I would not have qualified as harsh. I tend to shave every three days and the blade mowed down the longish whiskers on the first pass no problem. I do a two-pass shave plus touch-ups. Again, no harshness there to the end. In honing, hand-held, I moved from a 3k synth to the DT, not from a 1k. Only one side of the DT (lapped to 320x) was used with a very light slurry leading to plain water. Only one side of the Vermont slate (lapped to 600x) was used using oil. Then 8 laps on the cotton element of a Scrupleworks strop followed by 12 laps on the Swedish bridle side. Blade used was pretty humdrum, a 9/16 Larkin full-hollow. Lather was from a Stirling "Sheep" cake of soap.