Thread: How Important Is A Progressions Of Stones?

Originally Posted by Bart

Hmm. What if I am using only one whetstone?

I wonder what stone that woud be, hmmmmm I wonder....

There is another thread I did awhile back about the tighter the progression the smoother I thought the shaves were getting... But how the heck would you prove that???? It was just an observation...

Jimmy:
You have a Norton 8k??? I am pretty sure!!! "Mister HAD" just use Bart's One Coticule method the same exact way, and wow!!! a sharp razor happens... You can try just about any slurry stone you want on it... Sham used the same on a Japanese natural... Somehow there is an almost cult following that goes with a Coticule, and while they are great stones they are not unique in the one stone aspect...Heck I shaved from 1981-2007 using one stone and two razors and that was some other hard white natural...

I think the OP is correct in a tighter progression being a "better" edge, but I would not go anywhere near stating that longevity issue...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

There is another thread I did awhile back about the tighter the progression the smoother I thought the shaves were getting... But how the heck would you prove that???? It was just an observation...

Jimmy:
You have a Norton 8k??? I am pretty sure!!! "Mister HAD" just use Bart's One Coticule method the same exact way, and wow!!! a sharp razor happens... You can try just about any slurry stone you want on it... Sham used the same on a Japanese natural... Somehow there is an almost cult following that goes with a Coticule, and while they are great stones they are not unique in the one stone aspect...Heck I shaved from 1981-2007 using one stone and two razors and that was some other hard white natural...

I think the OP is correct in a tighter progression being a "better" edge, but I would not go anywhere near stating that longevity issue...

I would say i have to agree every word you have said in here Glenn . This is first time lol.
I would be agree 100% with idea OP if you use tighter progression(grits)You will save time,better edge,loose less metal from the blade.
Each of them will take long explanation but i will leave it in there.gl

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

I would say i have to agree every word you have said in here Glenn . This is first time lol.
I would be agree 100% with idea OP if you use tighter progression(grits)You will save time,better edge,loose less metal from the blade.
Each of them will take long explanation but i will leave it in there.gl

I'd like to hear the explanation. Saving time, I agree with in principal (especially using multiple stones), but I'm not sure about the better edge & metal loss aspect. I'm not arguing, just trying to understand. Isn't the point of the lower grit stones that they cut faster? In my thinking, that means if I jumped from 1K to 8K I'd cut the same amount of metal as I would if I went 1k, 2k, 4k, 8k but it would just take a lot longer. I'd reason that the resulting edge would be the same though. Where am I wrong?

FWIW, I do agree with the point that you save the stone (8K in this example) by tightening the progression. However, I disagree with the concept that you need multiple stones in the progression... You just need a progression like Glen pointed out.

The progression does help you spend a reasonable amount of time at each stage. I think it also helps you focus on what you are doing as you progress from bevel setting to sharpening to polishing.

It does help (at least conceptually) if you have a different stone for each task. If the stone has good feedback, then you can almost feel when you have finished each stage and are ready to move on to the next stage.

I am begininng to feel that this is a distinct advantage of natural stones. I find it much easier to feel when it is time to move from my Aoto (2-3000) to my Ohira Tomae (4-8000) and finally to my finishers (?). The feel is distinctly smoother when it is time to move on and each stone has a progressively smoother feel.

I have come to dislike honing on the DMT 1200. I know it is a fairly aggressive hone, but it doesn't give me the feedback I like. I usually move on too soon because I like the feel of my natural stones.

The Aoto isn't really good at bevel setting. I haven't found a natural bevel setter yet. It seems like a lot of low grit natual hones have too many inclusions to trust them with razors. I haven't seen where an Iyoto has been tried on razors.

What synthetic hones feel most like naturals? I have been kind of looking at the Bester ceramic hones.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

I'd like to hear the explanation. Saving time, I agree with in principal (especially using multiple stones), but I'm not sure about the better edge & metal loss aspect. I'm not arguing, just trying to understand. Isn't the point of the lower grit stones that they cut faster? In my thinking, that means if I jumped from 1K to 8K I'd cut the same amount of metal as I would if I went 1k, 2k, 4k, 8k but it would just take a lot longer. I'd reason that the resulting edge would be the same though. Where am I wrong?

FWIW, I do agree with the point that you save the stone (8K in this example) by tightening the progression. However, I disagree with the concept that you need multiple stones in the progression... You just need a progression like Glen pointed out.

Time is not shaving it is honing time.
Example if you use as you said 1k next 8k you will spend 1 hour to hone.
next you use 1,2,3,6,8, (i even used barber hones on that progression)you will spend 15 minutes(richmondesi i should have old post about his) and i think explanation in there too.
less metal loose from the blade.
Honing is not the just get sharpest edge is out there. It is how you get it.
how much time, metal have you use etc is count too to get that edge.
first one end result is not my own opinion.( haven't test this yet . i believe in Glenn's opinion on this.). i will do test have my own opinion too.
hope this helps

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Jimmy:
You have a Norton 8k??? I am pretty sure!!! "Mister HAD" just use Bart's One Coticule method the same exact way, and wow!!! a sharp razor happens... You can try just about any slurry stone you want on it...

Glen, of course I have the Norton series and I do like them and return to them from time to time. As far as using the 1 hone method on an 8k I will leave that to more patient honers than me.

While I've tried the 1 hone method with a coticule just to prove that I could I prefer a 1k stone for bevel correction and setting and working my way up the grit ladder to get to shaving sharp.

I have the whole Naniwa series but I do skip using the 2k and the 10k so far. I just don't see an advantage in putting the extra step in there. IIRC Shapton's philosophy is that approximately doubling the grit ...1k, 4k, 8k, 16k, 30k seems to be the way to go.

I tend to sharpen to an 8k level, working up progressively with synthetics, and then test shave. Assuming the shave is good I will then further refine and polish the edge. This is where I may go synthetic or I may go with a coticule or an Escher if I'm in the mood for that. Myself even though I have the Shapton 30k I rarely go that high. I just don't feel the need to unless I just feel like experimenting.

IMO if someone wants to include more stones for a tighter progression of grits in their honing it won't necessarily remove any more metal if they know what they are doing and pay strict attention to their progress. When you're 'there' you're 'there' but you have to know when to move on and when to stop. The longevity thing is a whole other kangaroo. I agree with Glen, too many variables to predict.

Originally Posted by Pyment

What synthetic hones feel most like naturals? I have been kind of looking at the Bester ceramic hones.

IMHO the Naniwa SS have the most "Natural Feel"

I have not tried the Bester set

BUT no stone/system has a bigger "flag" to move to the next stone as the GS Shaptons, that I have used...
I personally think the Shapton GS System basically says "Hey idiot switch to the next stone"...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

IMHO the Naniwa SS have the most "Natural Feel"

I have not tried the Bester set

BUT no stone/system has a bigger "flag" to move to the next stone as the Shaptons, that I have used...
I personally think the Shapton System basically says "Hey idiot switch to the next stone"...

That's exactly what they tell me

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am not even going it the longevity issue...

Way to many variables to even go there....

I think this is not only how it is, but how it has to be