Thread: Slate backed German yellow razor stones?

Coticules and the spessartine garnets can be found on many places all over the world. One can spend days reading on the Internet about them. About how spessartine Garnets were first found in Germany (in sizes big enough for use as gems), (Spessartine: Spessartine mineral information and data.)
They can be found in magmatic, metamorphic and pegmatitic rocks. They're only called "Coticule" when found in a metamorfic schiste. There are many known finding spots.
But I've never found a direct source about Coticule being actually mined and used as a honing stone, outside the Vielsalm area, Belgium. That doesn't mean it's not possible. Just that I haven't found any sources testifying about it. To complicate matters, Belgian Coticule has been exported by various companies all over the world, often re-branded, by companies outside Belgium. "Pike" is a know example of a company doing it.
To complicate further, Belgium only exists since 1830, with borderlines discussion going on for another decade.
After WWI, as pointed out earlier in this thread, a part of Germany was add to Belgium. But Coticule extraction in this region started with certainty before 1548, the date of a known document that mentions commercial Coticule activity.
During the following centuries, the reputation of the hones was outstanding enough for many competitors of other rock to make all kinds of referrals and claims.

A source exist from 1776, testifying about the export of over 100.000 hones annually, to all European countries, parts of Asia and the American colonies. A long list of mine owners and companies exists from these times till the present date.
But not one source I've read mentions any foreign competition. One geologist I spoke to about a year ago, told me about a Scottish finding spot of Coticule, of some geological meaning, but that rock is neither pure nor cohesive enough to be suitable for hones.
I have also read one source mentioning that the ancient Romans used Coticule rocks they harvested at the river "Tmolus", completely unknown in our days, but likely situated in the West of Turkey.

To close this post:
If you search Google Maps for "Coticule", you'll find a lot of Belgian places, but also one spot in Germany, very near Ratisbon (Regensburg), our most cited source for "German" Coticule. The actual spot happens to be the home of Steffen J. Lindner, who owns the Internet domain names of Belgischer Brocken, a well-know reseller of Coticule (with excellent reputation). His little marker on the map says "Piedra de Afilar Belga natural - Coticule en venta en eBay". Is it possible that someone mistakingly read this as if Coticules are also mined at that part of the world?

Kind regards,
Bart.

It appears that stones very much similar to coticules were actually mined at Ratisbon. Here's the pages of the book pertaining to these stones (and Belgian coticules, they are lumped together).

The name on the label I believe is C. Meinig, not E. He was the Bill Gates of the 19th Century British hone trade, owning as he did the largest manufactory and retail premises of this type. He won numerous awards at the various International/ National Exhibitions held in the last half of the 19th Century. He offered hones, polishing stones and grindstones from all over the world. However, I have not seen any mention of him offering the Ratisbon Hones in any of the Exhibition catalogues that I have seen.

Ratisbon, as a source of honestones has always puzzled me. The stones are mentioned in numerous articles, but none of the authors seem to have any direct experience with them. They were first mentioned by Knight in the catalogue of hones he made to go with a collection of hones and grindstones presented to The Society of Arts in 1835. Many subsequent authors copied Knight's work, without doing any further research themselves. In many ways, the Ratisbon hones are similiar to the Devonshire Oilstone. Both are included in Knights work, and later authors write about them because they simply copy Knight's work word for word, no-one has any real practical experience with either of these hones even though they are often mentioned. Unfortunately, the Society of Arts didn't keep the collection, so we have no way of knowing what Knight's yellow German Razor Hone actually was.

Knight's catalogue, whilst undoubtedly important, contained a number of errors, so I wouldn't put complete faith in what he wrote, or in what the authors who copied him wrote.

As far as other coticule sources are concerned. one was recently discovered in the English Lake District and others are to be found in southernmost Ireland and the Willyama Complex in New South Wales, Australia (including a sandstone with a 60 - 80% garnet content). Although I haven't been able to ascertain whether any of these were exploited as honestones. There is also a rock which is hypothesized, though not proven, to be a coticule precursor on the Isle of Man.

There are also Garnet containing rocks, which are not coticules, that have a history of commercial use. These include a locally exploited honestone quarry near Bedgellert in Wales, a touchstone on the island of Anglesey and a whetstone, which was regarded very highly on a local level in the Nahant Peninsula in Massachusetts. Garnet- rich Mica Schists are also to be found in Chester County, PA, but I'm unsure if these were evr used as hones.

As far as the Roman coticule is concerned, this in actual fact a basanite or touchstone and not a hone stone. Although certain varieties of basanite have been used as hones, I haven't found anything to say that this particular one was. Many early authors give that location as the River Tmolus, but there is not now, nor has there ever, been a River Tmolus. There is a River Pactolus that flows from Mount Tmolus in Turkey, and this is regarded as being the original source of the touchstone, and was the source of their other common name the Lydian Stone. Historians typically blame Pliny for confusing the name of the river with that of the mountain, but it was Theophrastes who originally wrote of the River Tmolus, prior to Pliny.

These stones are a black, very hard and close-textured, variety of chert; and whilst the Romans called them coticule, they bear no resemblance to what we know as a coticule today. Pliny stated that the stones were not found any larger than 4" x 2", but later authors mention that larger stones were known to them. These stones are used to test the quality of gold and silver by making a streak on the stone, and comparing ot to a matching chart to quantify the purity of the ore.

I recently purchased one of these stones that came from the original source, and whilst it is rather too small for my personal taste, it has proved to be an excellent finisher that I use after a Charnley or Nakayama hone.

Kindest regards,
Alex

This thread reads like an exciting mystery novel to me.
I love it.
Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

This thread reads like an exciting mystery novel to me.
I love it.
Bart.

Quite. An absolute pleasure to lurk on, thanks all.

Garnet- rich Mica Schists are also to be found in Chester County, PA, but I'm unsure if these were evr used as hones.

Tell me where and they will be before I head home.

Largest coticule deposits to my knowledge are in Chile. Coticule is nowadays used by geologists to describe a type of rock with a certain mineral make up and formation history. This has nothing to do with their possible use as hones. I agree with Bart and A_S on this.

As for the confusion between Coticules, Thuringians, Ratisbon and German hones: the fact ArdennesCoticule and Bart mentioned about the Salm-area having been under various rule in history probably aided, but my bet is still on dealership or processing location having been mistaken for mining location.

What A_S writes is important in this respect: many of the passages discussing properties of hones were written by people who didn't know the mining location first hand and just went by what labels and dealers said, or by what colleagues had written before. Quite a lot (eg the nearby Belgian locations) have been proven erroneous. If they could get to be known as mining locations, it is plausible actual mining locations for different hones got mixed up.

The Google Map marker for Belgischer Brocken near Regensburg is interesting, but must be discarded as too recent to be of relevance.

Artan, the marker for Belgischer Brocken in Regensburg just concerns Stefan Lindner's shop location.
He is the german main distributor of these hones.

Originally Posted by IanS

Tell me where and they will be before I head home.

They are mentioned here Annual Report of the Geological Survey of Arkansas pages 30-31 of the actual book, pages 59-60 of the online file.

I have asked on some of the antique tool foums and some knife forums if anyone was familiar with garnet hones from this area, but unfortunately no-one was.

If you do go hone-hunting, good luck with it. I imagine finding a source of garnet ones, would elevate you to the status of a God on the forums.

Kindest regards,
Alex

Originally Posted by Oldengaerde

The Google Map marker for Belgischer Brocken near Regensburg is interesting, but must be discarded as too recent to be of relevance.

Fully agreed.

Originally Posted by 0livia

Artan, the marker for Belgischer Brocken in Regensburg just concerns Stefan Lindner's shop location.
He is the german main distributor of these hones.

Maybe Mr Lindner, who lives near Regensburg and holds a huge interest in Coticules, (as illustrated on his website) knows more about this than we do. It might be interesting to contact him with our question about the Ratisbon hones.


Alex posted something in the other thread about vintage Coticules, that caught my attention. I'm sharing it here, because I think both threads are evolving in the same direction anyway.

Originally Posted by A_S

Here's a link to the mineralogy I mentioned that talks about hones from Namur. It's Kidd's Outlines of Mineralogy and was published in 1809. Outlines of mineralogy - Google Books

"Outlines of minearology":
«Most of the finer kind of hone-stone are a remarkably compact siliceous shistus. Those hone-stones so commonly met with in commerce, which consist of two strata, one of which is yellow, the other blackish, come form the neighbourhood of Namur. The Character arising from the double colour is imitated artificially; hone-stones of this kind being in much esteem.
The Turkish hone-stone is so called from having been first bought from the Levant.»

As already mentioned in the other thread, Namur is indeed in the neighbourhood of the area where Coticule is extracted in Belgium. It's an area that exists mainly of small vilages and one small town (Vielsalm). It's obvious the foreign sources are likely to revert to a larger city in the vicinity. Often Liège, but in this source it's Namur.

The last sentence about the Turkish hone stone caught my attention. That peculiar word "Levant" made me think of something I read in another source about Coticule history:

"Charles Gaspar - "L' Industie de la pierre à rasoir dans la Region d Sart-Lierneux".


«La Pierre dit Lorraine et la pierre dite Levant.

La pierre dite lorêne est de couleur lie de vin, de forme rectangulaire; elle est débitée dans toutes les dimensions standard. Elle comporte deux variétés de petite dimensions, façonnées en biseau, avec arêtes arrondies, pur l'affutage de gouges er de couteaux a hévéa: ce sont le "goudjes" dites lorênes.
De même, la pierre dite levant, de coulear grise et vendue dans toutes les dimansions standard, a fourni deux variétés de "goudjes" dit levants, et une troisième varieté, faconnnée sur mesure, fournie sous l'appelation "pierre dite levant pour sécateur"; cette piere exportée en grande quantité vers l'Algérie était utilisée notamment par les viticulteurs.»

(my humble attempt to translate)
«The stones called Lorraine and the stones called Levant.

The stone called Loraine is of a pale wine-red color, delivering rectangular hones in all the standard dimensions. There are two varieties of small dimension, made wih a bevelled side and a rounded back, for the honing of gouges and knifes for harvesting naural latex: these are the whetstones calles Lorraine.
Likewise, the stone calle Levant, of gray color and sold in all standard dimensions, delivers two varieties of whetstones and a third variety, custom made under the name "Levant hone for pruning shears"; these hones were exported in large quantities to Algeria, where they are mainly used by the winemakers.»

Levant has in French the same meaning as in English: Oriental, Eastern part of the mediterranean, it's countries and islands.

What this shows, it that (Belgian) Coticules have been sold with the predicate Levant, which could have easily contributed to the confusion about whereabouts of these hones. Or how a Belgian hone could have end up being called a Turkish stone. (We also know some are sold as Kosher, which may equally lead to future confusion about place of origin). Of course all this does not mean there are no genuine Turkish hones.
It just illustrates how a hone that was exported for several centuries all over the world, sold by many, for a wide variety of purposes, ended up with many names.

Best regards,
Bart.