Thread: Jnat bevel setter?

There have been some binsui jnat stones on ebay, item #200422233034, they come in a courser red which is estimated at between 600-800 grit and a white at 800-1000 grit. I was wondering if anyone here has used these or if anyone thinks that they might work as a natural bevel setter. The ad says they are used for removing damage and rust from chef knives and such but makes no mention of razors, I am wondering if they might be a little rough for a fine edge like on a razor. Would I be wasting my money? Thanks.

-Jason

IIRC, hi_bud_gl and 0livia have both tried the Amakusa Red and found that it was not suitable for razors. Inclusions and other inconsistancies in the stones. Not sure about the white, though; I've not seen anyone try. The Aoto could be used as a bevel setter, if you don't have too much work to do. I have one (for the moment), but I use it after a Norton 1k, not to set bevels.

Thanks,
I was worried about that since it said the red has kind of a wood grain structure to it. If no one else has tried the white maybe i'll give it a try although being such a newbie to all this I dont think I would be a very credible reviewer.
What would a progression of jnats for razors look like? Would the aoto be the bottom end and nakayama's the top, or am I wrong even with those? What would be some of the middle stones names I would be looking for? I have seen some lyoto stones which are supposedly 1-5000 grit and are said to be far more abrasive than aoto so maybe those would be the starting point, has anyone used a lyoto on razors?

-Jason

I wish I knew, and I wish I could answer. The Aoto is rated around 2-3k, and I beileve Nakayama's are usually finishers (though I think Nakayama is just the name of a mine, not the stones in general). I have an Asagi that I finish on.

I have usually been lucky buying stones. I like my Iyo. It is not a natural version of Shapton 1000, and so I don't use it often for sharpening. I use it as a scrubber to clean stones and as a nagura on some stones ( 4-5k range) as the "grit" seems to break down quite fine and quick.

It makes a good third stone for keeping your middle and finish stone up and running. mine is clean and nearly all white. For a purists approach it can do the coarse work but not as well as synthetic water stone

I did some reading on the Iyo and (at least on the woodworker's forum) has been noted to dish easily. 330mate.com gives it a 3 of 5 which would make it similar to the Aoto (maybe a little harder).

FWIW, So on Japan Tool slots the Aoto as a stone to use between 2K and 6-8K. It seems his recommendation is to use a 1000 (synthetic)> 2000 (synthetic) > Aoto > natural medium finishing stone > natural finishing stone.

Can I ask why you want a Jnat bevel setter? I mean I'm sure you can get one (Hell, you can set a bevel on a sidewalk if you wanted to). But frankly, a DMT F/EF seems like a better tool for the job. And if you don't like DMT's there are any number of 1k Synthetics that should work fine. Basically what I'm asking is if there is some reason other than performance you are looking at a Jnat?

Originally Posted by IanS

But frankly, a DMT F/EF seems like a better tool for the job.

Frankly, how do you know that? Do you know of a Jnat bevel setter? Do you know it's not as good as a DMT F or EF?

I can tell you have DMT's or at least really like them. That is your personal preference based on your (seemingly) limited experiences with hones. I know of lots of hones I prefer over DMT's, and yes, I have used DMT's. I'd also bet there are lots of other great ones out there that I don't know about yet. That's the whole point, to learn. And you have to try things to learn about them.

Originally Posted by Jasongreat

If no one else has tried the white maybe i'll give it a try although being such a newbie to all this I dont think I would be a very credible reviewer.

Here's the problem, if you're not very experienced with honing how would you know if the hone works at all? I've seen few edges from people who are new to honing and they can't get it right even with well tested hones (even though they seem to think the razors are great, they usually lack quite a bit in comfort and often in sharpness).
Then there's the question about buying rocks just because they seem inexpensive. There are only a handful of sellers of japanese hones who have the expertise and can ensure the hone is suitable for a razor and won't be damaging the edge. If you're not buying from one of them you're taking a fairly big gamble, especially with japanese stones which typically have all kinds of impurities.

The best in my opinion is to use something that's tested and consistent on razors. Once you've gotten good with that and feel like playing with new stuff, sure, try whatever you want, you'll have a benchmark to compare to.

Holli;
The three things that I find to be of concern for a bevel setting stone are that it's level, consistent, and fast.

Diamond plates have three major advantages which happen to be that they are always level, are always perfectly consistent, and are much faster than any similar grit stone (ridiculously faster according to DMT).

If there's a stone that can be maintained flatter than a 1/4" thick steel plate or made harder than a diamond, then you might argue that naturals offer superior bevel setting. But really the only complaint I've ever seen leveled against a DMT are that its scratches are relatively deep. Maybe if you intend to go from Beveling to finishing polish that's a problem (actually I've done that and it's really not that bad even), but throw a middle stone in there in the range of 4-8k and those "deep" scratches polish out just fine.

When I was looking for a Jnat at low grits, every expert I spoke to and every web reference I could find recommended synths until at least AOTO. For me, using razors, that translated to "Synthetic bevel setter". I'm sure there are divergent opinions, but I couldn't find any. So no, I have no experience with Japanese bevel setters. I haven't found many people who do, despite there being lots of people with experience with Japanese stones at higher grits. That may not be enough for you, but for me it's plenty telling.