Thread: Chinese and Coticule

What's the difference? Is a Chinese, say 12K a natural stone, just from China?

Coticule is just a natural stone, right?

To my understanding a coticule can be used for well, just about anything? I'm still learning here... But seems like with slurry you can do a lot of things you'd need harsher grits for and then with water you can do fine finishing. Is this right? Okay, if it is right, is the same so for a Chinese stone?

Why one over the other?

Then we get into the Belgium or Belgian blues or whatever they are...is that another coticule just from that area? I know all are likely based on preference and none better than the other, I suppose.

Sorry, lots of questions. Perhaps this should be in the newbie section....

A Coticule is a Belgian whetstone. More about it here: Belgian Hones - Straight Razor Place Wiki.

Some more natural hones here: Category:SRP Hone Database - Straight Razor Place Wiki.

The ultimate resource for Coticules is Bart's site at Welcome to Coticule.be - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone.

Regards,
Robin

They are both natural stones. They come from different parts of the world and have different characteristics. The Chinese stone is very hard and slow cutting. While slurry will speed up the cutting power somewhat it is nowhere near as versatile as the coticule. The Belgian blue is in the same strata of rock as the yellow coticule and sometimes they can be harvested together to form a combo hone. These combos are rare and expensive. In past years they were glued together to reinforce the yellow. Nowadays slate is the normal backing for the yellow. It is a very delicate stone and easily broken. BeBerlin has given you the links you need to study on them and draw some conclusions.

I'm a member over at coticule.be and I've learned a TON. More than I ever imagined. Just a few short months ago I vowed I'd never hone. Now, I see where it'd be actually fun and take an interest in it.

When you say whetstone, I see that also spelled as wetstone. Same? And, this just means a stone that needs to be wet in order to be used, right? So, aren't pretty much all stones wetstones/ whetstones? Am I missing something?

I probably am over-complicating things.

Originally Posted by rickboone

Am I missing something?

I probably am over-complicating things.

Maybe so, a lot of resources on this forum and on Coticule.be. Good that you've found an interest in honing. Once you get whatever stones you decide on it will really become interesting.... if not more confusing

"Whetstone" is just a generic term for any sharpening stone. It has nothing to do with water or being wet. "Whet" is an old word in English meaning to sharpen. The word isn't used much now outside of the compound word whetstone.

I've never heard "wetstone" except as a misspelling of whetstone. "Waterstone," however, refers to a class of sharpening stones, in contradistinction to oilstones. Oilstones you use with oil, waterstones with.... well, you get the idea. Waterstones are usually fairly soft.

Belgian coticules are versatile. Depending on how much slurry you use (if any) they can perform a variety of tasks from bevel creation to final finishing. Used without slurry they're very good if slow polishers. The Chinese stone is pretty much only usable for the final finish, and even for that it's pretty damn slow. But it's cheap (~$30, a good deal cheaper than a coticule), and most people regard the finish as excellent; some say better than the Belgians.

Whet - as in sharpen. Yes, many are used with water, but that's not where "whet" comes from. A coti is different from a C12k... well, all they have in common is that they are natural hones.

For newbs torn between the Chinese and Belgian stones, my recommendation is this. If you've got a workhorse set-up like the Norton 4/8K, or the Naniwa 3/8, or a DMT 1200 + a good midrange hone – at any rate, a setup that can handle bevel creation and basic sharpening – then and only then should you consider the Chinese 12K. It's only good for coming in at the end and making a good shaving edge that much better and smoother.

If on the other hand you're looking for something that can handle a lot of the main honing, you're better off with the coticule.

A final point of clarification: although you definitely can create a bevel with the coticule, I think it's something a lot of newbs would find challenging.

I'm back from reading the links and the posts here. Thank you all very much for the information!

Yes, I'm very lost. Ha ha.

I was under the impression a Belgian was a coticule. The article called a Belgian a Belgian or Belgian blue and a coticule a coticule. So, maybe the blue/ yellow deal as an earlier response talked about?

Then I read about BBW's and DMT's and I'm like WTF?

IS there a glossary or hone dictionary somewhere that says this stone is for this, and this is what is looks like? Wait, I've read that....

The problem is there's 89 stones that all do the same darn thing. And, then 80 of those will do the work of 10 other stones.

I'll get there...

I'm going to watch my video from Lynn again and focus on the honing sections.

As stated previously, I only have a Swaty right now. I did about 10...um...laps? What do you call it? Strokes? Well, that did NOTHING! I have read like 100-150 strokes. I will try that.

Are there any other honing videos out there? It seems like I've heard mention of one, but cannot recall.

Oh, and Holli4Pirating...okay so a Japanese stone, Chinese and coticule are all "natural" stones in that they come from the earth. But, what then are the differences? From that I've seen a 12K is a finishing/ polishing stone (trying to figure out difference in those terms), yet while a cotiucle cannot be rated per se (not sure why b/c a Chinese natural can) it's based on guess of the user, I've seen those guesses in the 10K and up range. So, their "grit" or rating of whatever that is is in the same range. Do they not do the same job? What am I missing? Just preference?

Thanks all!

Originally Posted by rickboone

Oh, and Holli4Pirating...okay so a Japanese stone, Chinese and coticule are all "natural" stones in that they come from the earth. But, what then are the differences?

Thanks all!

They don't actually have grit ratings, just rough approximations. The 12k isn't REALLY a 12 k in other words. The differences come in the hardness of the stones, the speed of cutting, and the finish they will leave on the edge.

As said before, the C12k is a slow finisher (will not be good for bevel setting etc, just for the final hone in your kit.). The coticule can do just about everything, depending on how you use it, but is mainly a finisher when used without slurry... and the japanese stones are a whole can of worms unto themselves.. each varies on the utility, speed, and final edge, most of the prized j-stones are crazy finishers, but many claim they can do it all. The Japanese stones can put you in a new tax bracket if you are not careful.