Thread: HELP!!! Please help verify if stone is Karasu

@OLD_SCHOOL
I see...really appreciate your help, thank you.

@Pyment
I did not do anything to the stone until I get a reply from the seller which he quoted :
"This is Phantom karasu and Namazu.
Namazu = white point
Namazu is the evidence of the best Tenjyoh suita layers."
I dont know how true, can anyone confirm this?
Anyway, I have already try to rub both stone against each other to remove the center scratch when I decided to keep them but I failed.
I guess stone don't wear out so fast and this doest not feel like a soft stone.
After lapping, I realise that the pink small dot which is not so obvious at first became more reddish and cover most part of the stone that looks like blossom.

@kevint
This stone is about 7-8cm X 13-14cm X 4cm razor size, paid twice the amount stated in ebay listing. Maybe this is peanuts to some, I don't know really.
I have no experience in cutting or lapping stone, can I use sand belt to smoothen the crack? Please advise.
By the way, what is awasedo?

Originally Posted by Maplelite

By the way, what is awasedo?

it denotes that the stone is finishing stone. It is also an abbreviation which I can't find right now.

it's very very hard to tell a good Karasu from a photo alone. They're all pretty, but not all hone the same.

I have several Japanese naturals with Karasu figuring, because I'm a sucker for it and I think it's very pretty. But only two of them are Nakayama Karasu. They were a lot more expensive (4X+), and a lot better. Both the true Nakayama Karasu came from OLD_SCHOOL, and both the non-Nakayama mined Karasu-figured stone came indirectly from another seller, who originally purchased from 330Mate.

The non-Nakamaya Karasu are both very pretty (I think), and are actually serviceable hones that i don't regret buying, for their price. I would put them in the neighborhood of a low-end Coticule in terms of grit, and they are priced similarly. They have the nice "Karasu tug" feel when honing.

But they are much softer than the Nakayamas. Also:
- They show a noticeable difference (darkening) in color when wet, the Nakayamas do not.
- They have little to no red "skin" on them, especially their reverse side. The Nakayamas seem to have very extravagant red skin. This may not be unique to Nakayama, but just associated with higher-end stones.
- And the Nakayama Karasu are really, really hard, which can't be "felt" from a photo. A trusted seller who is knowledgeable about both Japanese stones and razors is needed to give a true evaluation for how a stone will work with razors.

Here is a set of 4 photos showing the surface and backside of two Japanese naturals with Karasu figuring, but are not Nakayama Karasu. The second stone may actually be Uchigumori rather than Karasu. I'll show photos of the two Nakayama Karasu I have in the next post:

These next two are Nakayama Karasu. The figure is very similar to those above, looking at photos alone. But when honing in hand, the differences are very noticeable. Both are very hard, and very fine, great finishers. The thin 3 X 5" one is much slower than the much thicker 1.5 X 7" one, but both are great stones. The rear and sides of the thin stone came lacquered with Urushi by OLD_SCHOOL, the thicker stone is un-laquered. The thin one is an Asagi with Karasu figure, the thick one is Kiita with Karasu figure.

Originally Posted by Maplelite

@OLD_SCHOOL
I see...really appreciate your help, thank you.

@Pyment
I did not do anything to the stone until I get a reply from the seller which he quoted :
"This is Phantom karasu and Namazu.
Namazu = white point
Namazu is the evidence of the best Tenjyoh suita layers."
I dont know how true, can anyone confirm this?
Anyway, I have already try to rub both stone against each other to remove the center scratch when I decided to keep them but I failed.
I guess stone don't wear out so fast and this doest not feel like a soft stone.
After lapping, I realise that the pink small dot which is not so obvious at first became more reddish and cover most part of the stone that looks like blossom.

@kevint
This stone is about 7-8cm X 13-14cm X 4cm razor size, paid twice the amount stated in ebay listing. Maybe this is peanuts to some, I don't know really.
I have no experience in cutting or lapping stone, can I use sand belt to smoothen the crack? Please advise.
By the way, what is awasedo?

I am not one who can afford to throw money away either. What I am saying is if you look at the part that is usable maybe it wont be so bad, not that you have to or even should do what I would. I would not just cut it up- i did not mean to come across that way. all the pieces I have cut, i thought long and hard about and used enough to at least think that I knew what was best.

The side view looks sealed so at least some attempt has been made, as not all the stones from 330 are sealed. The ones that are, at least are worth some special attention. Not to overstate things not a big effort but some. Considering that you paid double; it is fair to expect that the performance and utility of the sweeter portion be satisfying-it should work as described in a very good way.
It would not hurt to seal/ fill it better should you keep it.
worth reading: Japanese Woodworking Forums • View topic - Natural Sharpening Stone Breakage

Japanese Woodworking Forums • View topic - Natural stone Mystery

How did you decide upon this one from all others?

Interesting, I was browsing So's page and saw a Shobudani Karaso stone that was not spotted it just has a few dark streaks.

Originally Posted by mainaman

Interesting, I was browsing So's page and saw a Shobudani Karaso stone that was not spotted it just has a few dark streaks.

Can you paste the link?
I don't know where to find the page. Thanks

Originally Posted by Maplelite

Can you paste the link?
I don't know where to find the page. Thanks

I can't link the page, they al have the same web address ,
I will just link the pic source.
http://www.japan-tool.com/toishi/ten...ani_Tomae1.jpg

on the iyo; what does the other side look like? I find mine to be the same essentially on all sides. Maybe you can lap the other side

Try some thin CA in the crack regardless

i'm the furthest thing from an expert on japanese hones, but here's what i think based on what i consider a common sense

you made a mistake.

if you don't have the money to throw away you should not gamble on stuff that you have no idea how it will turn out. i always think that the best way to save money is to pay the extra for the expertise and ensure you are getting what you want.

from your posts it seems that you bid double the ebay seller's opening bid. i recently read a thread where he and his hones were discussed at length and it seems that his opening ebay bids are just the price he wants for that hone without providing any additional tests or guarantees. if you want these extras you have to pay extra and he will take the time to find a hone that matches what you want. but you have to contact him and arrange that. if you just win a hone from him on ebay you are not getting any of these additional services he is willing to provide, regardless of how much you pay.

the hone may be excellent, but i'd be betting that this is less likely than more (given that the seller actually deals in these in bulk and the stuff he thinks is top choice he sets aside, tests and lists for much more money on his website).

so, you just took a big gamble and more likely than not you overpaid for a hone by a factor of two.

I realize that's not something that's going to make you feel good, but that's my honest analysis and I hope that it may be useful to you and anybody else who reads this thread for any future purchasing decisions.