Thread: universality of sharpening.

hmm... a very interesting thread!!! While I agree in general that sharpening is sharpening, I think that the thinner blade/narrower angle of a straight razor means that the razor responds more radically to variations in technique and processes than, say, a hunting knife. If you use traditional tool sharpening technique (hone one side until you get a burr and then flip it over, remove the burr and go to next smaller grit) on a straight razor you will probably get a nice sharp razor, but you may take off a lot more steel than our standard methods (as you are "going further" each time), and with the very narrow angle of the cutting edge that may translate into an unnaceptable reduction in overall blade width.

Similarly, a "razor honer" might take forever to get an edge on an axe, as we use techniques that minimize metal removal.

Even though I have been able to run since age four, surely; and since i am able and will if necessary run, means I have been "running " for 40yr.

Only problem/ I've never dedicated my self to its practice. In a crowd I would certainly have some catching up to do.

For me the only reason I want to talk about it is because I want to improve.

The most universal aspect is, ridiculously, you have to use them.

The reason I look to the stones and not to the tool is I have many and varied tools and they are all different even if I am not sharp enough to notice every subtly.

Hopefully I am blessed with consistent stones. --I don't know what kind of steel or how HT was controlled, or tempering. How hard or fine the grain is.

Nevertheless I can count on the rocks to be regular and steady.
Their job is to confirm that it's good steel we have.

There are so many razors there are some I just have to say I don't like the looks of. Glen is spot on with lucking into your ideal blade- trying different styles until you form preferences.

For me i work with the few that I think are coolest; that best suit what I think makes a razor sexy-not the one that works best as it is plain-jane as you get.

The specifics are varied enough in razor sharpening to cause us to go on as we do. Then think how many different kinds of knives there are from tiny chip carvers to 3 foot long sashimi, butter and machete. Is that an 1/8 inch thick 17 degree push chisel or 1/2 inch thick mortise with 45 degree bevel.

I do believe the razor can be a very sensitive instrument. The skin factor -good one Glen- cannot really be argued against. Shaving has told me more about what the stones are doing than anything else. It's like a microscope.

Check.

IMO, as with every skill there are different levels of knowledge: getting things sharp is just a matter of little knowledge and lots of patience, but getting the very scary edges consistently is a field of its own, bordering on science.

Leonard Lee (IRC, he did some tests with DE-blades) and John Juranitch (no razors, but according to his book he has/did have the guinness record of sharpening an axe and shaving with it. I've been unable to confirm it through guinness) also have written something on the subject. Both are quite nice reads for those interested.

Originally Posted by ursus

IMO, as with every skill there are different levels of knowledge: getting things sharp is just a matter of little knowledge and lots of patience, but getting the very scary edges consistently is a field of its own, bordering on science.

Leonard Lee (IRC, he did some tests with DE-blades) and John Juranitch (no razors, but according to his book he has/did have the guinness record of sharpening an axe and shaving with it. I've been unable to confirm it through guinness) also have written something on the subject. Both are quite nice reads for those interested.

John Juranitch has the "record" as I recall for the smallest edge dimension in Verhoeven's paper on knife sharpening experiments. .1 micron.

Originally Posted by kevint

Shaving has told me more about what the stones are doing than anything else. It's like a microscope.

Nice thread Kevin,
This sums up my take on SRP and my venture into straights. All my tools are sharper than they use to be. As far as buying new hones when you learn, I use to be satisfid with coarse medium and fine. I thought I was
a skilled sharpener. SRP gave me HAD and there is no cure. Oh well, if misery loves company, lots of love here at SRP.

PS Shaving is fun too!

Man, a lot of good things in here... While there is a "sharpening is sharpening" aspect to it (steel meets stone and gets sharp somehow), I still have my reservations. I'd say that sharpening is a basic concept that operates on a principle, but it is contextual. As Glen has pointed out on countless posts, knife guys can't be assumed to be capable of honing razors... you may find one that gets it quickly, but it is not a given.


One thing that I did really like was this line from the op

"The time to get a new stone(beyond the basics) is not when you are having trouble or needing improvement- it's when everything is good."

A coticule/Norton/Jnat/shapton/blah/blah isn't going to set a bevel, sharpen and finish an edge for you. I know that any of the honemeisters I've used could put a shave ready edge on one of my razors with any type of hone they had on hand because they have the skills down. It won't do you any good to spend more on a hone if you are struggling on what you have (unless you are trying to hone on a slurry stone, then you might consider upgrading to a useable size )

I'm definitely in the sharpening is sharpening camp. I think I break all the rules - I've posted pictures of the sharpening set-up that I use for razors. It's basically a "razor stone", moving the razor back and forth (like a chisel), followed by a power strop charged with Yellowstone, and a buffing wheel. The wheels run at about 300 RPM.

I did an A/B comparison with a brand new "track 2" style disposable last week. My straights shave as smooth or smoother. That's good enough for me.

My first test for sharpness on chisels, etc, is to dry shave arm hair. My tools are sharp.

Leonard Lee's book on sharpening is great, BTW. I also love the Hack book.

Dino your system is damn slick really. Have you ever had an edge that just fell apart? over stropped, maybe?

You are right Mike, and I'dha never thunk, shaving(as it turns out) is not shaving. I don't believe I will do it any other way than straight. It is fun.

No, that's never happened to me. It only takes a few seconds on the stropping wheel, ditto for the buffing wheel. Sharpening a razor, start to finish, is about a 2 minute process - and part of that is putting oil on the stone and wiping it off. Yes, I use oil (another rule broken, I guess...).