Thread: universality of sharpening.

Originally Posted by dinosilone

I'm definitely in the sharpening is sharpening camp. I think I break all the rules - I've posted pictures of the sharpening set-up that I use for razors. It's basically a "razor stone", moving the razor back and forth (like a chisel), followed by a power strop charged with Yellowstone, and a buffing wheel. The wheels run at about 300 RPM.

I did an A/B comparison with a brand new "track 2" style disposable last week. My straights shave as smooth or smoother. That's good enough for me.

My first test for sharpness on chisels, etc, is to dry shave arm hair. My tools are sharp.

Leonard Lee's book on sharpening is great, BTW. I also love the Hack book.

Permit me to add the link where you showed your gear. That was a cool post.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...op-honing.html

I think at some basic level...sharpening is sharpening. However, there are several specialized versions, like high-dollar hair shears, microtomes, ceramic knives, razors, saws, axes, etc. Just because you can do one doesn't mean you have the skills and tools to do them all.

Originally Posted by matt321

Permit me to add the link where you showed your gear. That was a cool post.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...op-honing.html

I think at some basic level...sharpening is sharpening. However, there are several specialized versions, like high-dollar hair shears, microtomes, ceramic knives, razors, saws, axes, etc. Just because you can do one doesn't mean you have the skills and tools to do them all.

I am not saying chefing is shaving or shaving wood= whiskers. Of course not.
Every edge requires specialized treatment. We could try to be so specific that only in-person makes it understandable; but trying as we do requires some generalities. Specifics do help of course. One thing imho we must accept is steel is steel, even though each piece is potentially unique.

I did not really have to do a lot. Only stand on the shoulders of giants to see what's going on. listen, follow, do and observe, redo

I am surprised if i should read: "forget everything you know of Y sharpening" If you know steel and know rocks you are way ahead. Any particular detail can be yoinked from those who have already figured it out. One informs the other if you look beyond basics which are always oversimplified 100 laps on that 50 strokes etc.

Originally Posted by kevint

Any particular detail can be yoinked from those who have already figured it out.

this yoinking you describe is practically an institution here at SRP

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

this yoinking you describe is practically an institution here at SRP

I did not mean this in the sense of parroting nor absconding. Both of which are deceitful. From pyramid to progression circles, rolling x to inline side sharpening, etc. there are multitudinous ways to grind steel, with as many rocks used to remove it.
I did not invent anything in this pursuit, all has been yoiked. It's all flats. So when I looked at my cold chisel last week I had to chuckle. It was such a mess. Before razors I only thought of it as a crude edge so my willingness to let it look crude and sharpen it inaccurately was easy. With a file I shaped it, re-set the bevel "properly" I hope.

Now it will be easy to keep it sharp if I follow the basic rule of not letting it go too long, just like lapping a hone, or re-touching your shaver.

The face is just another link in the chain. The razor is honing the face; makes us look sharp. First we have to wash or faces. But some people still don't know the first thing to do is wash their hone. And when the face is especially grimy we have to scrub it.

I've sharpened wood working & other tools and kitchen knives since i was about 15 and now i'm sharpened straight razors for few years. I think there are differences on what you are about to hone but there are some similarities too.

I've never cared if i can get something scientifically sharp; i care to get things sharp enough for me and my family. There are some different tests i perform with knives, chisels, drill & router bits etc. To find out if the straight razor is sharp enough for me i use the final test called 'shaving'.

Sharpening things is not difficult, but of course it takes some time and thinking until you've learned the basics and get familiar with the equipment you have. After that comes improving those skills you've learned.

The part I don't understand from the original book quote is that the time to get a new hone is when everything is right. Perhaps that means when you're doing well with what you have, that means you have the skills to use other hones. And perhaps it means if you're not doing well with what you have, getting a new hone won't necessarily help.

I got my first pocket knife when I was 5 and my dad gave me a small synthetic pocket hone with it. He showed me how to spit on it and swirl the blade to keep it sharp. So to me, knife ownership and edge maintenance were connected.

Later when I was in the Army, during the whole four-year hitch I met only one soldier who could hone, while most soldiers had a knife. My personal standard was to sharpen until I could shave arm hair. I was so comfortable with knife-honing that I was surprised to find I needed completely new skills to hone straight razors, when I took that up at the age of 38.

Sharpening knives vs. sharpening razors involves similar tools, but that's like comparing street driving to drag racing. It takes radically different technique, and most of all it takes a much, much, much lighter touch. And the biggest difference, IMO, is that with a knife you can almost always make the edge more serviceable even if you don't get it scary-sharp. But a razor isn't even functional until you can get a pretty wicked edge on it.

Although, from a grammatical perspective alone, any edge is "razor sharp" as long as it's on a razor. Hardeharhar.

A number of years ago I met a guy who makes split bamboo fly rods. He had been doing this for many years. I was just beginning to learn that stuff and I asked him to show me how he sharpened his plane blades. He used his version of the "scary sharp system" ( sandpaper). He always started with 120 grit and ended at about 600 grit. He was very pleased with his results. Some time later I asked him to try out some of my plane blades that I had just sharpened. I had went to 2000 grit wet/dry and finished on a hard surfaced wheel loaded with chrome ox. He was amazed! I then pointed him to Handamerican and a leather belt they were selling that fit on his Sears 4x36 belt sander. He got it, loaded it with chrome ox and he is now one happy camper!

Yes, sharpening is sharpening, abrasive removes steel, you must know how to use your tools etc but ... ya gotta be willing to try new things and learn from others.

All of us here at SRP are doing a very good job of trying and learning. Lets keep it going.

Originally Posted by randydance062449

A number of years ago I met a guy who makes split bamboo fly rods. He had been doing this for many years. I was just beginning to learn that stuff and I asked him to show me how he sharpened his plane blades. He used his version of the "scary sharp system" ( sandpaper). He always started with 120 grit and ended at about 600 grit. He was very pleased with his results. Some time later I asked him to try out some of my plane blades that I had just sharpened. I had went to 2000 grit wet/dry and finished on a hard surfaced wheel loaded with chrome ox. He was amazed! I then pointed him to Handamerican and a leather belt they were selling that fit on his Sears 4x36 belt sander. He got it, loaded it with chrome ox and he is now one happy camper!

Yes, sharpening is sharpening, abrasive removes steel, you must know how to use your tools etc but ... ya gotta be willing to try new things and learn from others.

All of us here at SRP are doing a very good job of trying and learning. Lets keep it going.

Thanks Randy. That is very much the point of this thread.
to learn from rather than "forget everything you know about that gadget"

Originally Posted by kevint

I was reading The Handplane Book, by Garrett Hack. He includes a brief discussion of sharpening in chapter four. From my pov sharpening is sharpening-yes some techniques vary, sometimes more or less specialized tools are used. There are differences yes, like driving a stick or automatic transmission-they are different-but you are still driving and more is the same than different.

He says: "Ultimately it is more important how you use and mainatin your stones than which ones you choose. While sharpening keep the surface well flushed with lubricant and use only moderate pressure. Regularly check your stones for flatness and maintain them. Have a range of grits no matter if some are oilstones and others something else, and learn to use them all to get the keenest edge in the shortest time."

The time to get a new stone(beyond the basics) is not when you are having trouble or needing improvement- it's when everything is good.

Well said Maestro .

-Robert

I dare say that the only universal rules, at least for me, are math rules and some physics laws and stuff like that (don't want to get to technical). When it comes to sharpening the definition is the only thing that remains constant or universal which is "to remove metal until two planes meet at an acute angle" (just made that up but I guess it gets the message through).

Then again the act of sharpening is what I consider to not be universal. I sharpen kitchen knives too and I have to say sharpening a kitchen knife and a razor is absolutely different and what's even more astonishing is sharpening two razors that are from different brands or shapes. I for one part can get almost all my razors super sharp, I don't know how they compare to anyone else's razors but to me they are crazy stupid sharp, then again I never did manage to get a wedge sharp and I have an ern razor with a barbers notch that I get sharp enough to shave one side of my face and irritate the other one.

So I can only conclude that sharpening is not universal every single thing I sharpen is pretty much treated as an individual case and all cases can be cracked its just a matter of skill, experience and the right tools to crack it.