Thread: Got my japanese stone

Originally Posted by Pyment

This stone is Karasu. The black spots are mica. They increase the abrasive power. From what I have read, the darker they are, the more abrasive. They can be too scratchy for finishing razors when they are very dark.

The way to tell if a stone is Nakayama is to see the skin.

the first pic shows 2 stones. The smaller is a Nakayama I purchased from Old School. It had all of the right stamps and is a Nkayama Maruka with asagi and kiita. The lower and larger is a kiita I purchased from 330mate. I think it is also from Nakayama. The skin on the back of both have the same orange coloration.

The next 2 pics show a karasu which was supposed to be from Ozuku. I have found it seems to cut well but doesn't seem to be as fine a stone as either the true Nakayama or the presumed Nakayama.

Thanx for the explanation Pyment.

Just to know if I am wrong. If a stone is called Nakayama Karasu stone that means it is a Karasu stone from the Nakayama mine, correct?

If that is correct and mine is obviously Karasu, but can you also see from which mine it comes?

''Karasu'' means dark spots. That is funny because in Turkish ''Kara su'' means dark water.

The stone I have is definitely a hard stone. It produces
little slurry by itself. I use the diamond lapping stone(15-20 seconds or so) to produce a little bit of slurry.

The stone is Karasu, and they are supposed to be the finest for finishing blades. Karasu are very hard therefore scratchy, when you practice on it you will discover the right amount of pressure and slurry for best results.

Good info. Exactly my impression. Today I was trying
the stone again and found out I had to use less pressure to make my chisel really glide over the stone.

When I sharpen my chisel on the 8000 Naniwa stone, I get a very mirror finish. Then I use the Karasu stone and this mirror finish is replaced by a mist,haze(I believe it is called) finish.

Perhaps I should buy a loup and check the scratch pattern. I do think the Karasu stone has a higher grit than the Naniwa. Perhaps I could skip the 8000 and go
from 800,3000 directly to the Karasu stone.

I am thinking to do this because I read that in natural stones the particles gets smaller as you use it. So maybe my Karasu starts somewhere around 5000 grit and goes to 10.000-15.000 grit. This way I would not need the 8000 stone. Maybe by checking under a loup will give more info.

I don't really need a stone that is in the 20.000+grit
range as I was only looking for a stone that would
would be an improvement over the 8.000 grit Naniwa
stone.

Mainaman and Kingfish, thanks for the info on BKF. I will check it although I am sure it is not called that way here in the Netherlands.

Would cleaning vinegar do the trick without damaging
the diamond stone?

Originally Posted by SharpMan

How can you see that the stone is not much finer than a 8k naniwa?

I misread the OP. My screen does not have a grit size detector yet. But I am working on it.

Groetjes from Emmen.

Thank you for your comments and pictures about the Nakiyama stones. The one I bought from 330mate several years ago, "My Precious" had a skin of that orange color that was partially flaking off. Obviously fragile on the bottom side. After soaking a minor thump flaked it completely off, leaving a 98% flat surface.

Naturally, I lapped it with a diamond plate until it was entirely useable. I may well have a double sided 1.5 Kilo Nakiyama, as the ++++ that 330mate uses to show quality were 'off the charts'. Just giving me the hope of it cheers me up.

Thank you. fwiw, I don't exaggerate by calling it 'My Precious' and I've >100 stones. None of the others have names. I wish I could post a picture directly, instead of using photobucket or some such.

Originally Posted by Kees

I misread the OP. My screen does not have a grit size detector yet. But I am working on it.

Groetjes from Emmen.

HAHA, Kees, lol.

I think I read on another forum that you
had some japanese naturals, correct?

Thank you for your comments and pictures about the Nakiyama stones. The one I bought from 330mate several years ago, "My Precious" had a skin of that orange color that was partially flaking off. Obviously fragile on the bottom side. After soaking a minor thump flaked it completely off, leaving a 98% flat surface.

Naturally, I lapped it with a diamond plate until it was entirely useable. I may well have a double sided 1.5 Kilo Nakiyama, as the ++++ that 330mate uses to show quality were 'off the charts'. Just giving me the hope of it cheers me up.

Thank you. fwiw, I don't exaggerate by calling it 'My Precious' and I've >100 stones. None of the others have names. I wish I could post a picture directly, instead of using photobucket or some such.

Mitchshrader you can use tinypic to post pictures directly.
TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

After you have uploaded a picture, you yill be given some links. the one that starts with [IMG] and ends with [IMG] is the link you can use in your post here. That will post the picture directly here.

I don't have the background/experience to know if your stone is from Nakayama or not. I think even the experts would have to have the stone in hand to tell.

Real Nakayama Karasu are long mined out, and are very expensive because they are rare. A cheap Karasu is of either very low quality compared to the true potential of the stone, or they are not mined from Nakayama.

That's a beauty, I like the coloration in it...
Just my two cents, but I wouldn't rub it with a DMT each time I use it to make a slurry, your just washing expensive stone down the drain. It is a finisher, and if it takes a few more strokes to get it done, so be it, at least your saving your stone...That's up to you though....Talk to OS or anyone that can get you a rubbing stone...

I had some free time. Removed the iron on the side of the stone. Looks much nicer now.

It wasn't affecting the sharpening, but it just looked to
ugly.

That's a beauty, I like the coloration in it...
Just my two cents, but I wouldn't rub it with a DMT each time I use it to make a slurry, your just washing expensive stone down the drain. It is a finisher, and if it takes a few more strokes to get it done, so be it, at least your saving your stone...That's up to you though....Talk to OS or anyone that can get you a rubbing stone...

Glad you liked it. Check the first picture I just posted.

I actually don't like using the DMT stone to create the slurry. A rubbing stone might be a good idea. 330mate send me a nagura stone for this, but the nagura is too coarse. Still nice
from him to send it for free as extra.

I was under the impression that using a diamond stone to create a slurry was the best thing to do.

Real Nakayama Karasu are long mined out, and are very expensive because they are rare. A cheap Karasu is of either very low quality compared to the true potential of the stone, or they are not mined from Nakayama.

Maybe I am super lucky HAHAHAAH. I really don't care what mine it came from as long as it is finer than my 8.000 Naniwa stone.

Originally Posted by SharpMan

I had some free time. Removed the iron on the side of the stone. Looks much nicer now.

It wasn't affecting the sharpening, but it just looked to
ugly.









Glad you liked it. Check the first picture I just posted.

I actually don't like using the DMT stone to create the slurry. A rubbing stone might be a good idea. 330mate send me a nagura stone for this, but the nagura is too coarse. Still nice
from him to send it for free as extra.

I was under the impression that using a diamond stone to create a slurry was the best thing to do.



Maybe I am super lucky HAHAHAAH. I really don't care what mine it came from as long as it is finer than my 8.000 Naniwa stone.

yes that is true, as long as you like how the stone performs all else is not important.