Thread: Japanese Natural $$$

Wow, walking distance from my mother-in-law's house! Next time I go to Japan I am certainly visiting the store.

One thing I do notice about all those stones is their clarity and lack of inclusions. Is that at least part of what your eye interperates? (For Alx or anyone else that has an eye for quality)

ohhh nice.

Maybe this is the stone that can cure HAD.

It won't. It will only empty wallet and then you will be saving your pennies again for a future purchase.

Jeff
　
It is not really a store but more like an office showroom, you need to make an appointment and they screen casual calls plus no one speaks English. It helps if you are referred by a person known in the trade. A secretary will meet you but the owner Hatanaka-san is not usually in the office.
　
Mr. Hatanaka-san although very courtious does not like to chit chat about the stone market as it turns out. We talked more about business and politics more than stones. He is very guarded about the stone market and has a realistic handle on his position in the trade.

His father and Kato-san were partners in the ownership of the Nakayama mine, and when it was closed a final chapter was written. The mine had a supreme and continuous position for hundreds of years and were able, and continue now to set the prices they feel appropriate.
　
Because over the years their mine has supplied not only the household of the Emperor but also every major temple restoration with tennen toishi, and I would guess every tea house built, not to mention each and every woodworker even associated on the 2nd and 3rd tier of these undertakings or assiciations with Nakayama finishing stones. It is this past and deep history that compells the filial duty of Hatanaka-san to maintain a certain decorum. I have no reason to doubt that he lives in a modest manner. Kyoto has an elegance all its own.
　
The name Nakayama gets used so casually on e-bay and the internet in general, but in Japan, not so much so. The name is alluded to, yes. But the actual rights to the mine are not challanged. It is not easy to understand the way the mine system is set up in Japan, and I do not want to appear to really be fully in the know. There is no longer an entrance to the Nakayama mine that can entered and it is private property maintained by the family. They alone own the property rights and the rights to if they wish to open and mine it again, or sell any old stock as coming from that mine. There is not another entrance to the mine as someone has suggested, and no other stones from the Mt. Atago area can be marked as Nakayama stones.
　
Mt Atago is a big mountain and there may be other mines on the slopes of the mountain as rumored, and there are miners in the area who worked at the Nakayama mine many years ago. Also some of these miners may possess stone that came from the Nakayama mine that they bought or traded for, and it might be very good for sharpening. But by law this stone from the above mines or miners cannot be marked with the Nakayama ink stamps.
　
In a way stones from the Nakayama mine are really more than just stones, they are and were a product unique to the site, to the times and to the owners. The old stock stones and those held in reserve by the family are special and there are no replacements or subsitutes. There never were any other mines developed that had the same quality stones that this mine did. And I believe that the particular quality of stone from this pre-1960 era represented the end of what there was to be dug and that is why they closed the mine.
　
The stones that Hatanaka-san chooses to sell himself are the cream of the crop and I believe are sold on a client basis, not walk in traffic. The stones you see in the photos on the shelf are very even in grain, color and texture from front to back and side to side. They may also be from a particular strata or unique in some manner. Size does make a difference.
　
He does process other stone for wholesale to a select group of retailers. Here is a link to one “V‘R“uÎ‡“u‚𔃂¤‚È‚ç ‘åH“¹‹ïê–å“X(PROSHOPHOKUTO) As I said before he does not flood the market with stones and maintains a certain level of quality to protect the value of product sold previously. At a certain level it is not a stone business but a client based people business and many of his buyers are, I would suppose, sons of clients with ancient ties. This is all at a rarified level, there is no one above him or his company in the field. Alx

PS. for the yen to dollars converson, just remove two zeros from the prices in the above link. eg 150,000 yen = $1,500

OK - Everyone here send me $5000, I will group buy the $75000 stone, and let you know how it works. I promise to send it on to the next person when I am done with it.

James.

Very nice. It's like the Nakayama hall of fame. What makes some worth 35,000 and other Nakayama's worth only 500 usd. The one's we buy from Old School, 330 mate and the like, I mean, They are great hones and work well. What then is the difference.
Even So at Japan tool as Bruno mentioned has very expensive stones. he showed me one Identical to my Asagi, which has Maruichi Stamps, etc..All the Kanji, So's was 2000.00 while I paid 425.00, so What is the difference. I would love an education on this....I have several Japanese Naturals, Kiita, Asagi, Suita, and they are amazing. I never paid over 500 for any of them....

Originally Posted by Jimbo

OK - Everyone here send me $5000, I will group buy the $75000 stone, and let you know how it works. I promise to send it on to the next person when I am done with it.

James.

Sounds like a plan. I'd love to see what my blade feels like off a 5000.00 hone....

I imagine there has to come a limit at some point. Just the basic properties of the steel and temper if nothing else. I find it difficult to believe a more expensive stone could make a marked improvement over what I already get off the asagi.

It just must be a matter of size and rarity with these multi-thousand dollar stones.

James.

Also remember in Japan there is a certain group who covet these stones not for their abilities but just to collect. My understanding is they value them according to color and inclusions and patterns and the locations they come from and the prices can get really astronomical.